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The TL argument is an oft debated argument across the internet which neither side can truely win.

Basically, by the strict reading of the rule, you can validly argue that the designers meant either "you always get 1 TL weapon" or "you always get 2 TL weapons" no matter what the TL status of the original weapons is.

The common compromise is that non-TL weapons become a single TL weapon, and that TL weapons remain 2 seperate TL weapons.

Check out the unofficial Codex FAQ for Warpshadow's attempt at a temporary clarification.
http://rules.warpshadow.com/codex.htm

I believe if you go onto the UK GW site, there is a lil section on how to arm fex's and specifically mentions about the 2 T/L issue. Saying how fearsome it is, so I can only assume it is allowed, ill try and get a link and post it for you.


Found it hope this clears the issue up.....

http://uk.games-workshop.com/tyranids/carnifex-conversions/2/

Look at the official FAQ. They are allowed double TL weapons.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/news/errata/3/

I’ve been noticing that there a quite a few rookie Tyranid players here. The purpose of this post is to try to create cost effective list of “what to buy” This post is based on my own experiences, as I only started collecting in April 2006.

Here’s what I’d buy in sequential order:

a) Battle of MacCragge and the Tyranid Codex
This is no-brainer. You get models, terrain, dice, templates, and the small rulebook in the Battle of MacCragge Set, all at the same price as getting the full hardcover rulebook.

b) Two Battleboxes
For those starting out, it’s the most cost effective set. With 2 sets, you’d get 6 warriors, 16 gaunts, 16 hormagaunts, 2 Carnifexes, 16 genestealers, and 6 ripper swarms. The caveats for this selection are as follows

a) I’d suggest building a Devilfex and Sniperfex for your Carnifex. That is a Carnifex with 2 Twin-linked Devourers and Enhanced Senses (Devilfex); and one with a Venom Cannon and Barbed Strangler with Enhanced Senses (Sniperfex). You can model other biomorhps, but these are the minimum biomorphs I’d field.
b) The 16 genestealers can be built with rending claws and extended carapiece. You can field the scything talons of course, but from a points perspective, its an expensive model.
c) You can field the 16 gaunts as termgagunts or spinegaunts, or any permutation. The only thing I suggest is that you create all 16 gaunts the same way; don’t make 8 termagaunts and 8 spinegaunts.
d) The warriors are a bit difficult, as I found them difficult to play with. Next to the Carnifex, they are, however really fun to build. I personally prefer fielding CC oriented warriors with rending claws, scything talons, leaping, toxin sacs, adrenal glands (+1 I), and extended carapiece. The problem with this configuration is that in 2 battleboxes, you only get 2 rending claws. So you’ll have to purchase rending claws from the Lictor or Brood lord, purchase/trade bits online, or get creative with green stuff
e) The ripper swarms look cool, but I don’t play with them much anymore.

c) 1-2 Hive Tyrants
Although the Brood Lord is the most cost effective choice, most users will suggest fielding at least 1 Hive Tyrant. I consider it the best HQ unit, due to its overall stats. 3 configurations I suggest

a) Shooting Tyrant with 2 or 3 Tyrant Guard – 2 TL Devourers and 1 Venom Cannon, Enhanced Senses. The Tyrant Guard also make this investment more expensive, but a worthwhile purchase, should you go with a configuration like this
b) Winged Close Combat Tyrant – 2 sets of scything talons, Adrenal glands (both upgrades), toxin sacs.
c) Mixed Tyrant – scything talons, Venom Cannon (or TL devourers), Enhanced senses.

d) Brood Lord
If you want to get a cheaper HQ choice, go with the brood lord instead of a Hive Tyrant. Although I think the Hive Tyrant is better, no one can deny its power with its high initiative, rending claws, and inhuman strength.

e) 2-3 Zoanthropes
They’re a solid Heavy Support choice and will compliment your army well. The most difficult part is they’re probably the hardest to build and maintain. They’re metal miniatures and very top-heavy.

After this core list, you can go in a number of different directions:

Want a fast attack?
The cheapest route is to go with 1-3 Raveners. A more intersting choice is gargoyles. I suggest getting at least 12 gargoyles. I consider them the 2nd hardest unit to build next to the Zoanthrope. So for you Rookie Hive Commanders, stick with the raveners.

Want a Horde-Oriented army?
Get gaunt/genestealer boxes or another battlebox. I like the latter option, because you get more models, including another Carnifex.

Want a Godzilla-Oriented army?
Get Carnifex sets or battleboxes. I think you’ll find yourself wanting to experiment with other biomorphs. But know that the Devilfex and Sniperfex are among the most cost-effective Carnifexes. Close combat oriented fexes look extremely cool, but are tough to get into combat before they’re killed by your opponent. To contrast, a Godzilla army with 3 Devilfexes and 3 Sniperfexes is pretty scary.

Want a “balanced” army?
This army is hard to play with, but offers the most flexibility if you don’t know your opponent or mission. I’d suggest getting some raveners and/or gargoyles first. Next would be another Battlebox. If you didn’t get Tyrant guard, make sure you have at least 2 or 3.

What about Lictors, biovores, and special characters?
First I want to make it clear that there are NO bad models in the Tyranid army. They all can be effective. Remember this post is based on fielding a competitive army with a budget constrain in the quickest amount of time. But here’s my current reasons why I don’t field these other units for competitive games

a) Lictors – I like their high base strength (higher than a Hive Tyrant) and the fact they can assault when they arrive. Their crappy save, makes it difficult to justify fielding them. You have to roll particularly well to both kill and make enough saves to be effective. Most people will say its better to field 2 or 3 lictors. A standard Lictor costs the same as 2 Raveners, so many will opt to field these units instead of 1 single Lictor.
b) Biovores – A very flexible unit. They can do pretty well against those with low toughness. The unknown that comes with scattering, is the only reason I don’t field them is that I’d rather have Carnifexes or Zoanthropes.
c) Special characters – The death leaper and Red Terror and forge world units are fun to look at, but I wouldn’t suggest getting them until you’re ready to switch things up by playing with fun lists, rather than competitive ones.

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FINAL THOUGHTS
My suggestions here are 100% subjective. Many readers should disagree with several aspects of this thread, and they should be. I don’t consider myself as the primary hive mind here. This being said, I think my choices, and the reasons behind them, are sound and should have some merit. Your playing style and why you like Tyrnaids will affect the list choices you make. Don’t be afraid to proxy models and use your own experiences to make your own decisions.

To rookie Hive Generals
Feel free to send me a PM, should you have any questions

To veteran Generals/Warpshadow Moderators
I welcome constructive criticisms, especially where you disagree. My viewpoint is singular and based on limited experience.

Hello fellow hive minds,

I just started nids this weekend (but i play since 2nd ed.). I bought a fex, a zoat and a battleforce.
I was thinking of buying a lot of battleforces. The fex model would also be converted to HT (plastic is easier for flyrant anyway) and the warrior could also be coverted to reaveners, biovores and T-guards. It will be alot of converion work but that's the best part of it and will save some money. My only metal models would be a broodlord and zoats.

I would like your input on my idea.

Ohhhh... almost forgot... TREMBLE BEFORE THE HIVE FLEET ONSLAUGHT!!! Muahahaha

Best regards

I'd say one of the key things you need if you're just starting out, in terms of models/units, is Tyranid Warriors, they're tough, strong, and very capable for an affordable price, and they can be equipped for any and all varieties of mission.

As for other "starting out" pointers, I'd recommend using simple tactics, don't over-complicate your battle plan just because you think you know Warhammer 40K strategy, 'nids don't need fancy maneouvers to kill stuff.

though im fairly new to nids, I have noticed that the tips on these forums are abit out dated, atleast mainly talking about flesh hooks.

I find the current Flesh hooks amazing (I play cities of death) they allow nids to pass over impassable terrain, and they make nids attack in cover as they had assault frag grenades, which the current rule book states that assault grenades dont give the enemy any extra chance to attack. (no loss of "I")

Aside from that, most of the thoughts from 2005 are not much different now.

ok, i need some suggestions on how to expand my 'nids.
-Termagant x 10 Flesh Borer, Toxin Sac, Adrenal Gland, Extended Carp
-Termagant x 8 Devourer, Toxin Sac, Adrenal Gland, Extended Carp
-Hormagaunt x 20 Adrenal Gland, Adrenal Gland, Extended Carp, Toxin Sac
-Genestealers x 12 Extended Carp, Scuttler, Toxic Sac
-Genestealers x 8 Extended Carp, Scuttler, Toxic Sac, Scything Talon, Feeder Tendril
-Ripper Swarm x 5 bases
-Raveners x 6 Scything Talon, Scything Talon, Death Spitter
-Tyranid Warrior x 6 Death Spitter, Scything Talon
-"One Eye" Close Combat Tusks, Regeneration, Crushing Claw, Scything Talon, Adrenal Gland, Adrenal Gland, Extended Carp, Reinforced Chit, Toxic Sac
-Shooty 'Fex A Mid Range Tusks, Scything Talon, Scything Tail, Twin Death Spitter, Spore Cysts, Adrenal Gland, Adrenal Gland, Adrenal Gland, Reinforced Chit, Toxic Sac
-Strangler 'Fex Long Range Enhanced Senses, Extended Carapace, Adrenal Gland, Adrenal Gland, Reinforced Chitin, Toxic Sac, Spine Bank, Scything Talon, Barbed Strangler, Bonded Exoskelly
-Venom 'Fex Long Range Enhanced Senses, Extended Carapace, Adrenal Gland, Adrenal Gland, Reinforced Chitin, Toxic Sac, Spine Bank, Scything Talon, Venom Cannon, Bonded Exoskelly, Tail Mace
-biovore x 1 with a crap ton of mines of each variety
- Spider Tyrant Close Range Winged (but instead of wings i used 2 sets of scything talons and made a spider like body) Adrenal Gland, Adrenal Gland, Acid Maw, Extended Carp, Toxic Sac, Rending Claw, Scything Talon, Warp Field
- Strangler Tyrant Long Range Extended Carapace, Toxic Sac, Scything Talon, Enhansed Senses, Barbed Strangler, Warp Field
- Acid Tyrant Long Range Extended Carapace, Venom Cannon, Scything Talons, Acid Maw, Enhanced Senses, Toxic Miasma, Toxic Sac
- Tyrant Guard Retinue x 4 these are the old style without the smart cannon
- Broodlord x 1 standard gear for him
- Mycetic Spore (its done)
so.. any suggestions on where to beef up?

First off, pick up another 12 Devilgaunts (Termagants with Devourers), because the minimum brood size is now 10, and20 will fit happily in a spore.
Secondly, Tyrant Guards and Hive Guards are entirely different units, despite the similair name... theyre both really good, though!
Third, the new 'dex has homogenized a large number of our units and nullified our biomorphs. Pick up a copy of the codex and/or read if you haven't already... major changes include:
- No more Extended Carapace. Only Tyrants can buy a better save with a very expensive biomorph called Armoured Shell, that can't be combined with an even more expensive set of wings.
- Only Zoanthropes have warp shield. Not even Tyrants can take it.
- Adrenal glands have changed and there'sonly one type.
- 'Fexes can't take an extra wound, a better save, or greater toughness. And they cost LOTS more.
- All mines are now of one type, but are now worth buying as a swarm.
- Old One Eye is a special character again.
- Feeder Tendrils no longer exist; they're superceded by ubiquitous Scything Talons, which are now VERY good
- Warriors are troops, Tyrants cost > 200 points, carnifexes > 150 minimum, broodlords are optional Genestealer Sergeants and not HQ.
Other than just the Mycetic Spore, there's a whole bunch of neat new units to try out... taking a look through should give you more and better ideas than any advice I can give.

I'm waiting for my codex in the mail.... wow, sounds like i've got some major point redistribution. The old tyrant guards i have were "shield beasts" but i guess they don't apply any more. Word in the herd (at least at the place i go) seems the Space Wolves are geared for thrashing the 'nids without any effort. Have yall run into this issue?

yea, they were ouchie. They can take nice combinations of special weapons in the grey hunter squads, which hurt us. They can take nice JotWW psychic powers which blow apart fexes and tervigons like nothing. and the person I played against also had 3 las/plas razorbacks, so he killed me even easier...

well, I finally got my codex, and picked up a boxed set, which expands my devour gaunts to 24, my H-gaunts to a second brood (of 16) my warriors are up to 9 (wow alot i know lol) and my stealers (with scything talons) up to16 and i attached my brood lord to that group. I'll need to get another brood lord for my other group. My raveners are now up to 9, and btw I love the new plastic raveners. As for a tactic using my Trygon Prime, I found something that works rather well. My devour gaunts pop up through the hole and that worked well to put my opponent into a possible panic, but a 20 man unit of H-gaunts in my mycetic spore made him sweat more.... unfortunately the dice gods weren't with me and he got to place my spore *facepalm*

Man, I just stopped playing over the winter and now that summers back and gearing up to play some 40k the nids go all topsy tervy on me. What happened to the Carniefex, its now a crazy expensive and almost all its biomorphs are gone. ITS MADNESS. Now I have to go and redo quite a few models, specially my tyrant, as scytals aren't +1 attack anymore

well I guess its like a fresh start.

Out of interest, how? As far as I remember, the spore has a self-correcting rule for if it scatters too far. The wording of it needs a little clearing up in a FAQ, but it's there.

It probably scattered off the board, the only way a spore (or drop pod, for that matter) ever rolls on the mishap table.
Or perhaps his opponent was trying to deceive him, by purposely not mentioning the rules for spores (they are just like drop pods, only with a capacity of 20 or a single MC, and have toughness, wounds, an armour save and the ability to fight in close combat)