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 Post subject: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Broodling
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I got it - I love it.
Most things in this codex is defenetely quite niddy in my books and fits well. Some point costs and abilities got worked over since the index-version.
Technically is it a bit of an effrontery, given what GW does, as they changed rules and handed out Indices for each fraction, just to release a codex soon after. But I can't stay angry at them for long with this codex's content.

A butt-load full of battle options and 3 more hive fleets with a grand flavour on their individual tactics.
Not everything is rosey on the nid front. 1 or 2 of the rediscovered Psi-abilities not really are fitting in my senses on what they are doing. Given I work here with the german codex version I can't get as much detail as I want here.

Anyway, overall, I like what has been done and I can't wait to bring a few ideas to life.

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 Post subject: Re: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:38 pm 
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Monstrosity
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Reading through it, it's the strongest codex we've had since 3rd. Good stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:31 pm 
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Little One
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I love the new dex!

Already put together a few lists. Even a heavy carnifex behemoth half deep strike list of hell with no shooting nids :b

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Last edited by Teodo on Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Biotitan
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I haven't got to the list building stuff, still going though the lore.

So, some unusual behavior of a hive fleet hanging around a conquered system constructing some giant biological super psychic construct... Why is this screaming to me "Zerg Overmind" lmao

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 Post subject: Re: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:54 am 
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Little One
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Tiamet lore is really cool. Are they building the biggest spawning pool ever or a niddy comsat tower that could draw every nid in the universe to the galaxy? Either way would be insanely awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:55 am 
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Big One
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Why shouldn´t they not hang around a system (at least for a while)??
Maybe it´s a way of the hivemind ot tackle the "brunt earth" tactic implied by inquisitor kryptman.
Its all about evolution.

Mankind used to be hunters and gatheres in times past.

hrld

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 Post subject: Re: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:43 am 
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Broodling
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Well, Shrikes are not listed in it - I suppose because there are no official models for it.
They are still listed in the Index.
But if you wanna use a Tyranid Prime, the one in the codex would currently not support the Index-Shrikes.

I suspect that either Forge World is returning them in their new book with updated rules...
Or they will go the way of the Dodo...

The latter would be quite... iritating for me... I have 9 Shrikes and I like to use them...

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 Post subject: Re: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Little One

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:44 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Wolfstone wrote:
Well, Shrikes are not listed in it - I suppose because there are no official models for it.
They are still listed in the Index.
But if you wanna use a Tyranid Prime, the one in the codex would currently not support the Index-Shrikes.

I suspect that either Forge World is returning them in their new book with updated rules...
Or they will go the way of the Dodo...

The latter would be quite... iritating for me... I have 9 Shrikes and I like to use them...


Not gonna lie, the whole "If the unit didn't make it into the codex, then use the Index" and the "if the upgrade didn't make it into the codex, use the index" rules are overly complicated for no good reason.

If GW really intended the index books to keep being used after Codex releases, then why didn't they just put them all at the end of the main rule book to begin with or release it as one large hard back book so that it would feel like part of the main line instead of this temporary soft back look. I mostly forgive the FW books because historically FW releases things at a different time than GW (though one hard bound Imperial Armour Index would have looked nice and we'd have 3 core rules books. From that point we would just need Codex and Chapter Approved releases).

I hate how GW is implementing the publication of 8th but I love the rules in 8th and it's frustrating to no end at how polarizing the two main parts of 8e are for me. DX

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 Post subject: Re: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Broodling
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sac_ld wrote:
Not gonna lie, the whole "If the unit didn't make it into the codex, then use the Index" and the "if the upgrade didn't make it into the codex, use the index" rules are overly complicated for no good reason.

If GW really intended the index books to keep being used after Codex releases, then why didn't they just put them all at the end of the main rule book to begin with or release it as one large hard back book so that it would feel like part of the main line instead of this temporary soft back look. I mostly forgive the FW books because historically FW releases things at a different time than GW (though one hard bound Imperial Armour Index would have looked nice and we'd have 3 core rules books. From that point we would just need Codex and Chapter Approved releases).

I hate how GW is implementing the publication of 8th but I love the rules in 8th and it's frustrating to no end at how polarizing the two main parts of 8e are for me. DX


Well, as I see it - GW wanted only things in a codex they either have already all models for, or can release them at the time the codex is published.

The reason is as simple as it is sad - Remember the first time the codex came out in which the tervigon was introduced the first time? I think that was the 6th-edition codex. At that time GW had no tervigon model (or held it back at the time. There is a sub-reason to that.**). Anyone who wanted to field tervigon used either proxies or tried to make own models.
But soon after codex release, a few smaller model makers made some conversion kits, which for example made some carnifexes make appear very tervigonish. The only problem - GW was never part of any of this. Thus actually not making $ and thus tried § to make those smaller companies stopping their rip-off-profits.
That lead to a series of court marches and some of these results from their still effect us today. Eldar fo example. Ever wonder why they are now called Aeldari? The name Eldar comes from the Lord-of-the-Rings-universe for the elfish ancestor kinds. GW ripped that off. But since LOTR is a public medium in the sense that anyone can read it and the name is mentioned their first, GW can't claim to have exclusive rights to the name Eldar and anything associated by it (like models, books, etc.) - so basicly anyone who makes things with names GW can't slap their TM on it has a few name changes (Hello Drukhari, heretic Marines, Adeptus Astartes, T'au, etc).

So, now days thye not wanna risk any faster-than-us-model-makers make similiar stunts. And that's why you not find anything in the codex they not already have on the market already.
The only ways how to make shrikes was either making own models or buying the wings from FW (as I did).
At the time GW decided that FW-stuff is cool to include in common games and to push some FW sellings (after all FW is supposed to be a part if GW and surely pays it's share to sell stuff), they put things like Shrikes in the common GW-codex. Buuuut... people were still to lazy or not well enough equipped in their money purse to by the expensive FW-Shrike-wings... (10£ back then for 3 pairs!) but the rulles for shrikes are still there... people either made own wings or bought from model makers that were not GW (*gasp!*).

That is why I think there will be only 3 possible options for GW what to do with Shrikes:
1.: FW makes a new book that will include them (plus updated rules for their other tyranid stuff).
2.: GW will include them in some own or similiar FW design in a future publication (unlikely).
3.: GW will treat Shrikes like Squats... (and thus screwing anyone who bought shrike-wings. And Skyslashers too... yupp, the winged rippers are no more in the codex either. 3 times you may guess why).



Oh... by the way... the sub-reason**
Why should a company make rules for a model out there but the release the model later? GW is after all only interested in making profit. I'm sure anyone can agree on that. Profit often requires investors and investors are attracted to companies that make regular profits. Back then, GW had a trouble with that. Their sales after a new codex surely spiked high in that regard - but after that fell back down. And they not so regulary released stuff, right? Their solution: Release things step by step stretched over a year to make continuating appearing profit and thus being looking more attractive to investors.
That is why I am sure that they surely had already a Tervigon model at the release of 6th edition codex, but only released months later, after the courts marches had been solved and they could securely slab their TM on things.

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 Post subject: Re: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Little One

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:44 pm
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
I get that, but it doens't change the fact that if they are not adding it to the codex, then the unit should just be abandoned or they Indexes should have been condensed into one hardcover book and sold as part as the main rules with the option to buy it separately for the people who didn't intend to buy the rule book/bought the starter set that came with a rule book.

The convoluted way they have chosen has resulted in the requirerment of FIVE to SEVEN books if I intend to play match play with Genestealer Cult with all the unit options (Index: Imperium 2, Index: Xenos 2, Codex: Astra Militarum, Codex: Tyranids, Warhammer 40,000 Rule Book, Imperial Armor Index: Astra Militarum, Imperial Armor Index: Xenos), and that's all before the release of Chapter Approve. It's not even been 1 year and I need to look across 7 books for all the rules and options available for my one army. This is my issue, I get that they are trying to cater to legacy players but don't want to make a huge run of models. But at the end of the day the Index should have either been part of the rule book like in 3rd or, like in 3rd, the rules should be completely superseded by a codex. No "oh it's not in the book, then add in this random unit or wargear option we purposely left out in the first place".

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 Post subject: Re: New Codex - Edition 8
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:47 am 
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Not Loukang
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Hello mates,

Maybe the answer is in between? The return on investment of shrikes and skyslashers is somehow poor vs. the time to produces the resin models. Maybe the molds are old and broken (as per the tyranid capillary towers). Maybe the building was and is a pain in the spore cyst. I personnaly still have 3 pairs of shrikes wings and they are gorgeous but really not that easy to assemble practically and esthetically.The Skyslashers are so fragile I am afraid of letting them out of the package. Damn I also broke legs and vents of my trusty hierodules. Not continuing unpractical (economic) models is the logical business way.

Now GW let owners of those models still use them via the index. That is the path of least resistance, but again, it is the logical way. No pain, and still some gain for them. The gain being you still play with your toys and buy their stuff, because nothing beats an happy customer. In my opinion it is the same with selling that outdated Red Terror. It should be punished, because it feels so out of place in the current aesthetic line (not speaking of the rules) but well the ROI should be less than interesting. Designing a new sulpt/mold, and expecting mostly only one bought product for every player? Nope.

The only way is plastic. Because adding bits to upgrade your basic dude to the beefed up version would wost less. Look at the Venom/Zoan/Neuro-thropes, Warriors/Prime combo kits. All we can hope in our wwild dreams is that GW deliver in a far future new combos kits: Lictor/Death Leaper, Bio/Pyro-vores, Ravener/Red Terror, Shrikes/Parasite O' Mortrex. Sorry Rippers you are not worth the effort, after all you are just walking biomass sacs ;). Oh let us dream and give us a Scythed/Barbed-Hierodule plastic kit too ;)

Cheers,

Lak


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