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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:03 pm 
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Chimera wrote:
I am having trouble with the Simple Green, but this was only day 3 last night when I tried to strip the miniatures. Most of the superglued arms of my termagents did separate from the bodies, and the elmers glue holding the flock to the bases broke down readily.

I have been trying to use a toothbrush to remove the paint, but the cracks and crevices, especailly between the top of the base and the bottom of the termagents, still hold.

Chimera


I had this happen to varying degrees with SG, brake fliud, and pine-sol. I usually had more of a problem with it if I pulled out the minis before 24 hours, but sometimes, it was unavoidable. For the crevices, I variously used a paperclip, pin, or floral wire. It's hard for the stripper to get in there, so unless it's really nasty stuff, the crevices may always be an issue.

The table of data in one of the articles on paintingclinic.com suggested that both Simple Green and Brake Fluid should be excellent after just 12 hours. However, maybe you should try a 48-hour soak, or heck a 7-day soak and see if you have better luck.

NOTE: I always used a stiff toothbrush.

I'll have to ping one of our former gamer friends about that. He stripped a number of models (I think he originally used brake fluid) and I know he had that problem.

Inquiring minds want to know:

1) Did you wash the model before painting it?
2) Did you start with a spray primer?
3) If you had to guess, about how many layers of paint were on the model?
4) Did you seal the model? If so, how?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:00 am 
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Phage wrote:
Inquiring minds want to know:

1) Did you wash the model before painting it?
2) Did you start with a spray primer?
3) If you had to guess, about how many layers of paint were on the model?
4) Did you seal the model? If so, how?


Last night (day 4) was the break through for stripping the models. I brushed them very thoroughly and pulled them from the Simple Green. There is still some paint in the deepest cracks and crevasses, but I'll proceed with the new paint anyway with the termagents. All of the paint I could reach with the toothbrush is gone. The models were the new plastic termagents and one old metal tyranid warrior. The models were not washed prior to painting. All were stated with spray primer. They all had at least two layers of paint plus a dry brush layer over the primer and below the matte finish spray.

I will purchase a hard toothbrush for future projects, and I will be getting some used dental tools to help with difficult areas of models.

Chimera

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:34 am 
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Chimera wrote:
Phage wrote:
Inquiring minds want to know:

1) Did you wash the model before painting it?
2) Did you start with a spray primer?
3) If you had to guess, about how many layers of paint were on the model?
4) Did you seal the model? If so, how?


Last night (day 4) was the break through for stripping the models. I brushed them very thoroughly and pulled them from the Simple Green. There is still some paint in the deepest cracks and crevasses, but I'll proceed with the new paint anyway with the termagents. All of the paint I could reach with the toothbrush is gone. The models were the new plastic termagents and one old metal tyranid warrior. The models were not washed prior to painting. All were stated with spray primer. They all had at least two layers of paint plus a dry brush layer over the primer and below the matte finish spray.

I will purchase a hard toothbrush for future projects, and I will be getting some used dental tools to help with difficult areas of models.

Chimera


Ok, so what was the specific breakthrough?

- more time?
- second soak?
- scrubbing before rinsing?

Glad to hear it's coming along. It was not perfect for me, but it was pretty darn good and I am for letting mild, safe-to-dispose chemicals do my work for me. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:25 am 
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Phage wrote:
Ok, so what was the specific breakthrough?

- more time?
- second soak?
- scrubbing before rinsing?

Glad to hear it's coming along. It was not perfect for me, but it was pretty darn good and I am for letting mild, safe-to-dispose chemicals do my work for me. :)


Agreed there! The last thing I want to do is make what ever is in the storm drain worse.

I can’t specify what individual thing caused the breakthrough because I made multiple actions each day (though they were the same actions each day). I do know that for the plastic models using the soft tooth brush to remove paint at the end each day, and letting the models soak when not being brushed, worked reasonably well after the 4th cycle. The paint that remains is in the difficult to reach places and 90% of the black base coat. This same process removed 99% of all paint on the metal warrior.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:57 pm 
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Hmm, not shocking when I think about it. Plastic will probably give the primer more "tooth" than metal. To improve on it, you might have to go with something undesirably aggressive (read: eats plastic).

Well, if you have a change to explore variable space and figure out the specific tips and tricks, let me know. I'll happily add them to my page on stripping. Pics are fine too. I can make a whole sub-entry on that page for this experiment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:39 am 
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Phage wrote:
Hmm, not shocking when I think about it. Plastic will probably give the primer more "tooth" than metal. To improve on it, you might have to go with something undesirably aggressive (read: eats plastic).

Well, if you have a change to explore variable space and figure out the specific tips and tricks, let me know. I'll happily add them to my page on stripping. Pics are fine too. I can make a whole sub-entry on that page for this experiment.


The remaining primer is acceptable. It will not take much more than a casual dusting of more primer to bring the models to the point from which I can start the new scheme. As I work through models I will update you on what works and what doesn't, and I'll evaluate the bonding performance of the new layers of paint.

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 Post subject: Use Methylated spirits
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:46 pm 
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A lot of the stuff you mention isn’t available this side of the Atlantic, personally the best I have found is Methylated spirits which is ethyl alcohol denatured with methyl alcohol to prevent its use as an alcoholic beverage (Hic!). It is also known as denatured alcohol or surgical spirit (used for cleansing skin before injections or before surgery). It is also used by artists to clean acrylic paint from brushes.

And just for the scientists among us here’s the full spec: - http://www.distill.com/specs/EU2.html As you can see the exact composition varies depending on which country you buy it.

I have found that soaking a mini in Meths for half an hour is sufficient for the paint to wrinkle and go all floppy (an effect not unlike that that happed to Emil (Actor Paul McCrane ) in Robocop when the van crashes into a big tank to chemical waste). Then it’s under the running tap and a stiff toothbrush to remove the paint. I have found that it may one or two goes to remove 98% of the paint on a mini. Sometimes there will still be a bit in crevices etc.
The stuff is cheap, only 3 or 4 Euros for a litre and you can get it any chemists or hardware shop and it doesn’t seem to affect plastic.

Some disadvantages of meths is that it attacks green stuff causing it goes rubbery and loose adhesion and it stinks in the nasty chemical way because it is volatile, so use it in a jar with a lid.
I have ever only ever used it to strip GW paint but it did remove GW spay primer (eventually) so I don’t know how it will with other brands of paint..

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:34 pm 
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Bigus Nidus - What are the hazards? What is the disposal method? How badly does it muck up your family's (soon-to-be) drinking water if you pour it down the drain?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:27 am 
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I'm quite surprised to hear that methylated spirit works so well!

The biggest problem with assessing the hazard level is the wide variety of mixtures that can be labelled as 'meths' - the link Bigus gave shows a good view of the size of the problem. Mixtures that contain only ethanol and methanol are innocuous from an environmental standpoint and reasonably safe from a handling perspective, as shown by this rather comprehensive document. My use of 'reasonably safe' in this context means that you're treating it like the flammable, poisonous chemical that it is, not like something you can take a bath in.

Other denaturants such as methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) or methyl isobutyl ketone (MIBK) are more serious hazards. I didn't find any data on their environmental persistance but at the quantities present I wouldn't anticipate any issues. More of a worry is the toxic effects: long term exposure warnings tend to consist of things like 'liver damage' and 'nervous system depression'. The levels of these chemicals added to meths are designed to make them taste bad and be mildly poisonous, not knock you unconscious when you open the bottle. Nevertheless it's reason to treat these formulations with a bit more respect. On the plus side MEK and MIBK are rated as excellent solvents for paint in industry (MEK is typically used as a carrier for coding inks in industrial processes, amongst other things) so meths denatured with them may show increased effectiveness.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:58 pm 
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@Phage, I've never had a problem with disposing of Meths, as teatime points out it's just alcohol, I'd say that most of the meths I use just evaporates. I have found that after a few week, despite my best efforts, that my sealed jar of meths has reduced to a jay with a thin layer of congealed paint peelings which I just put in the bin :oops:

All the same I'd be careful of where I'd dispose of it. It makes a nice blue flame though :lol:

@Teatime MEK ! :shock: That is horrible s**t, I know I used to work with it. I was told that's it is such a powerful degreaser that the fumes can remove natural oils from your lungs.

When I worked in aviation the Boing approved method for looking for leaks in the B737 bladder fuel cells was to put some Ammonia in the fuel tank, pressurise the tank and hold a white cloth soaked in MEK near the pipe connections, inspection holes etc and see if the cloth changed colour! Or maybe it was MEK inside, I can’t remember. It was one sure way to empty an aircraft hangar! I'm showing my age now; the B737 centre section fuel tank has been "wet" for a long time now.

Anyway I think MEK will attack some plastics.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:54 pm 
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Back onto topic. I have a suspicion that Cillit Bang (or as i call it, 'hydroflouric acid') may work, but i have to try it out before i am certain. Available here in Britain.

Time to sacrafice a marine or 6 to this cause

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:59 am 
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:lol: too true also the pink oxy stuff (in britain) lossen the paint :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:51 am 
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Just a note,

for stripping metal models with no plastic or green stuff parts there is NO better paint stripper than PETROL / GASOLINE.

After 1 hour you should be able to remove any paint which hasn't formed into a sludge at the bottom of the jar.

And it can be SAFELY re - used in your car, lawnmower etc after the sludge has been filtered out.

The model comes out looking as though it has been freshly casted (no tarnishing or residue).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:53 am 
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forgot to mention

Do not try to strip plastics in this way as it creates a substance like napalm.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:52 pm 
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I have to post my report on Greased Lightning.

I took my Flyrant appart to make him a magneto-tyrant. Long story short, Balrog wings went in to a pan of greased lightning. After 4 hours came back scubbed lightly with a tooth brush and only managed to get a bit of the base coat of the fleshy part of the wings (Ultra Marines Blue) After another 8 hours i was able to get a little more of the Ultra Marines Blue and some of the Regal Blue started to come but it was hardly noticeable. The process continued for about 5 days scrubbing 2 or 3 times a day. There is still much of the black primer on the model that I gave up on. At one point I was scubbing so furiously I broke 1 of the long claws off. I don't think I changed any variables in the experiment. Can anyone confirm or deny the efficacy of Greased Lightning as according to the original post?

This is the exact type used:
http://www.greased-lightning.com/products/Products.aspx?ProductId=1

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