Warpshadow.com

An unofficial discussion board dedicated to the Tyranids of Warhammer 40,000 (tm Games Workshop)
It is currently Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:38 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:21 pm 
Offline
Harpy
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:17 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Once again, trying to fix all of GW's foibles in one fell swoop. The item below is horribly incomplete and malformated in several parts, but I figured someone might want to comment on whether it meets the mark for improving our current mono-build nids.

Format is meant to mimic the current "dataslate" style more or less. Fortifications, Formations, and Decurion detachment are in need of much more work.

Enjoy!

http://album.warpshadow.com/d/82031-1/Adaptive+Biology.pdf?g2_GALLERYSID=9b4c3e1791882573ddc93eac2bb30fe2
v2http://album.warpshadow.com/d/82068-1/Adaptive+Biology+v2.pdf?g2_GALLERYSID=e9ef8fc75feb4d1d0af7cbe6f3b662a6

v2: added a bunch of highly sketchy formations, including three decurion detachments. Still need to add warlord traits and fortifications. And make everything pretty and properly formatted. And fix some of the costing.

_________________
"And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."
- Edgar Allen Poe, The Masque of the Red Death


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:11 pm 
Offline
Great Devourer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:39 am
Posts: 5676
Location: Canberra, Australia
Ambitious as always mate. But as always, a very different take on 'nids and a very complete one. :D

_________________
"I know you may find the Tyranids physically repellent to look at but believe you me, you don't want to let them out of your sight." Hojan Storall Technomagos of the Adeptus Mechanicus

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/Yaleling/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:45 am 
Offline
Big One
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:03 am
Posts: 961
Location: riezlern/austria
Wow, looks like a lot of work.
Its only sad that i will never have a chance to try your fandex, as my gaming group is rather strict.

Not sure if genestealers should be some kind of guant (fluffwise)...

hrld

_________________
NO SCARS NO GLORY

http://www.pocitolocito.com
http://album.warpshadow.com/v/Hive-Fleet-Nautilus/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:19 am 
Offline
Harpy
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:17 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Agreed that the chance of this getting played anywhere is small; it's mostly a labor of love (hate?) so that I can get some catharsis about the current state of competitive Nid builds in the local meta (i.e. if it's not a hive fleet detachment with max dev-flyrants and mucolid spores for troops, you might as well go home).

Next step for me is to complete the formations, fortifications, and decurion detachment, add some pictures and background (to make reading easier), and post some design notes for why I did what I did (i.e. why are Genestealers gaunt-deviations instead of their own thing).

_________________
"And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."
- Edgar Allen Poe, The Masque of the Red Death


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:11 am 
Offline
Hive Tyrant
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:40 pm
Posts: 943
Location: Alberta, Canada
I like your work with the phychic powers. One you've take a lot of the randomness out of it which is always a plus in my book, and all of the options have real value. You forgot to add ranges to some of the malediction powers, (at least I thought they need to have ranges associated with them.) I really like how you can turn a psychic heavy tyranid army using these rules into an unholy cacophony that causes the enemy army to simply not do what they are suppose too. A thousand Eyes is probably too powerful though.

I rather like the weapons options as well. The ability to add ap3, ap2, and haywire to many different weapons allow you to really change up your strategy, and make use of what would now be odd models to fill in your armies weaknesses.

_________________
I like to think of this forum as a gentleman's club, where we all sit in huge chairs by a roaring fire wearing robes, smoking from pipes and discussing the finer points of voracious space-beasts.
-Bocks

Termagant: A stock character, replaceable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:44 am 
Offline
Harpy
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:17 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: San Diego, California, USA
withteeth wrote:
I like your work with the phychic powers. One you've take a lot of the randomness out of it which is always a plus in my book, and all of the options have real value. You forgot to add ranges to some of the malediction powers, (at least I thought they need to have ranges associated with them.) I really like how you can turn a psychic heavy tyranid army using these rules into an unholy cacophony that causes the enemy army to simply not do what they are suppose too. A thousand Eyes is probably too powerful though.


The comment on ranges is in the header on all the hive mind powers; they can be target against any model in synapse range (any synapse range, not just that of the casting model). Intended to be somewhat limiting (12" range means you have to be in enemy rapidfire and charge range) but also more universal (warriors can be used as psychic power conduits, and you can cast all the way across the board into another creature's synapse to help them out). Overall, intended to reinforce the advantages of spreading synapse around the board rather than castling up.

_________________
"And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."
- Edgar Allen Poe, The Masque of the Red Death


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:55 pm 
Offline
Hive Tyrant
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:40 pm
Posts: 943
Location: Alberta, Canada
Ah yes I missed that, good idea though.

_________________
I like to think of this forum as a gentleman's club, where we all sit in huge chairs by a roaring fire wearing robes, smoking from pipes and discussing the finer points of voracious space-beasts.
-Bocks

Termagant: A stock character, replaceable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:04 pm 
Offline
Harpy
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:17 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Design notes:

NOTE: just realized that I don't have anything that looks like a pyrovore, other than using them as alternate models for biovores. Still thinking about how to cast them into the army.

OVERALL DESIGN GOALS
* All the models you already have still work

* Complies with and uses the existing 7th edition rulebook, rule set, style guidance from 7th edition codexes, and general army structure that people will be familiar with

* Everything is useful and competitive with other choices in the army (especially within FOC slot)

* To the best extent possible, everything fits with the background in the previous tyranid codexes, and has rules and stats appropriate to achieve their intended role in the army.

* A close-combat centric army is a viable option, with well-chosen biomorph, weapon, and psychic power support

* High-end models are generally less powerful (lower statline values), have the same or more attacks, and marginally less powerful shooting options available (to make shooting and CC balanced choices with each other).

* Consistent with current codex trends (and for ease of representation on the board and descriptions to opponents), fewer options are available for each brood, but each option changes how the brood works both offensively and defensively in a fluff-consistent way.

* Where possible, consolidate multiple types of models into a single entry with variations and deviations. This is mostly for my simplicity, so I can write more options with fewer pages of entries, but also to reinforce the genetic diversity theme, and spread options (like biomorphs) to a wider variety of models.

* If you could get a capability in a previous codex, you can get that capability in this codex. It may have a different name, be conferred in a different way, or have tweaks on usage or duration, but the game effect should still be available to the same model through some means.

* The army can function without having large numbers of hive tyrants. One is ideal, two permissible. More than that should be unncessary (the same level of combat ability can be had cheaper with other broods).

* Reduce the number of die rolls and random events where possible. Reduce the number of special states and conditions that have to be tracked or remembered.

* To the greatest extent possible, upgrades and powers should benefit shooting and assult equally, so they don't artificially encourage only one kind of build for synergy purposes.

_________________
"And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."
- Edgar Allen Poe, The Masque of the Red Death


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:05 pm 
Offline
Harpy
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:17 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: San Diego, California, USA
SPECIAL RULES

* Forced Evolution - so all of those warlord traits that are only useful in specific circumstances (because they're dependent on specific terrain on the board, or a specific kind of army or enemy) are now entirely in play since you can choose to configure to the board and the enemy army. This is only for CAD warlords since the Decurion detachments have enough benefits already.

* Weapon-beast - the main method for tweaking the existing rules for additional close combat weapons to give tyranids lots of bonus attacks (when they choose to have CCWs instead of all guns). Even a hybrid build with a pair of CCWs and a single gun will still get +1 attack.

* Expendable - pretty much the same as before, but applied to spore mines, mucolid spores, and mycetic spore pods. Adds the ability to add an unlimited number to an army without any particular consequence (other than point cost).

* Synapse - some significant tweaks to this; I wanted Synapse to be something that was pretty vital to most tyranid army builds. Fearless remains, and adamantine will seems like a fluff-no-brainer (although of limited usage since witchfire and maledictions seem to be pretty rare these days); FNP(6+) is an effort to reduce the relative importance of Catalyst to an upgrade rather than a vital necessity. I'm not sure the costing of the army properly accounts for adding FNP (especially to all fo the synaptic MCs/FMCs). I also removed any Shadow in the Warp effects from Synapse; effects on morale/psykers are now encoded in the Shadow in the Warp hivemind powers list.

* Synapse resonator - this is just for my happiness; I like the fluff in the older codexes that had Warriors as nodes to extend the synapse network instead of being equal (synaptically) to the Hive Tyrants. This will reflect that status, which will (I would hope) encourage builds that have a core of somewhat expensive Synapse Creatures with distributed warrior broods to spread out their influence over a wider area and more cheaply.

* Brood Telepathy - this is the same, but used for more options. Now the default for broods that operate far forward (lictors for example) so they don't go stupid periodically and have the option to do realistic things like going to ground.

* Instinctive Behavior - no longer leadership dependent, but less severe. Goal here was to keep the flavor of instinctive behavior without having to make a bunch of Ld rolls (which I often forget) and remember what result each brood got through the next game turn. Instead, each brood take Ld tests to do specific actions that aren't consistent with their instincts; if you choose to play a brood the way its instincts would normally lead it, you can do so without any randomness.

* Leader-beast - extra restrictions on independent characters (Primes), to prevent them from joining silly broods to exploit "majority stat" rules and similar. In practice, this shouldn't have much effect on army lists, and is largely covered by the core rules prohibition on ICs joining units of MCs, so this might be an unnecessary rule.

_________________
"And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."
- Edgar Allen Poe, The Masque of the Red Death


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:05 pm 
Offline
Harpy
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:17 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: San Diego, California, USA
HIVEMIND POWERS
Overall, I was looking for less randomness and less need to roll enough dice to get Catalyst every game (or just suffer through the rest of the crappy powers).

Also, having the powers usable against any target (offensively and defensively) within synapse range is another carrot/stick to offer people to design armies with broad, robust synapse networks. A 12" range (own synapse) is pretty terrible, but nearly anywhere on the board (through other models' synapse) is better than most, and removes the need to have the right model with the right power in the right place. To a certain extent, all hive mind powers are held communally by all of the synapse creatures, except for the purposes of the number of powers each model can cast and who takes the Perils in the Warp.

As a side note, I tried to go away from the direct-damage psyker powers (except warp blast, of course); I always thought that they were goofy representation of the Shadow in the Warp which (in the fluff) is always shown as fear, despair, distraction, and other purely mental/psychic effects.


Hivemind powers (buffs)
* Onslaught: moved to the primaris to make it more common. This is designed to work kind of like Vanhel's Danse Macabre...you just move the affected brood d6" and forget they moved (they can still run, assault, etc). One of the several ways to improve assault by allowing additional movement; also should be still good for shooting and psyker powers since it can move models up before they shoot or cast.

* Dominion: more important do the additional synapse buffs and the dependence of psykers on synapse range; I can see this as a "first cast" to put enemy/friend units in range before casting other powers.

* Catalyst: unchanged, but since FNP is a default synapse ability and available to nearly everything through the Regeneration Node biomorph, it is much less important.

* Thousand Eyes: brand new, meant to be a way to allow "grenades" for all units (with the penalties for having to cast a malediction on the target). Put a shooting buff as well so it's not wasted if you roll it for a shooty army. It does require a synapse unit to be close to a shooting/assault target to be useful, so it doesn't benefit armies where the synapse creatures hang back and shoot.

Shadow in the Warp (nerfs): note that these are the only powers that a Broodlord can roll from, and all of them benefit a brood of genestealers on the assault (except maybe null field, although it would tamp down the enemy's ability to protect themselves with blessings).

* Null Field - resurrected from earlier version of the rules (the name and function at least, if not the rules). Put as the primaris so that all tyranid armies (that choose to roll on this table) can have anti-psyker ability, but aren't forced to take it by a bad roll if their opponent doesn't have psykers. There were a number of options for nerfing enemy psykers, but the direct penalty to the roll seemed to be functional and interact seamlessly with the (very common) librarius conclave formation. As a blessing (instead of a malediction), this will be possible to cast since its only meaningful targets are psykers that would be able to Deny pretty easily.

* The Horror - Pinning is not that meaningful, especially if you're only forcing a single check. Needing something else that made sense thematically AND was useful to the army, I decided to suppress shooting and Overwatch (two of the great impediments to a melee-based army under the current rules). As a malediction it is a little harder to get off, but not impossible.

* Hypnotic Gaze - returning from the dead; this is the iconic broodlord (patriarch) power, all the way back from the famous Deathwing Terminators vs. Genestealer Cult short-story. This is similar to the original power from the last codex, with slightly broader application (whole unit). It's designed to punish deathstars, but has basically no effect on large crunchy units (and exactly zero effect on models that only get one attack anyway).

* Psychic Scream - as mentioned above, direct damage "psychic shriek" style powers are meh in my mind as a way to reflect shadow in the warp (except maybe against units of psykers), and certainly drawing warp power or wounds makes very little sense (tyranid psychics are by definition incompatible with human ways of thought, or even the Warp in general). That said, I completely changed this power into a nerf against the "skill" flavored statline values and let it be cumulative (for old times sake, recalling the stackable psychic choir zoanthropes from a couple editions ago). Making it a blessing on the caster makes it easier to get off. This ability also replicates the effect (if not the mechanics) of Paroxysm, which I never liked thematically even though I used it frequently.

Warp Distortions: zoanthrope powers, bascially. This list pretty well guarantees that you will get offensive powers if you want them.

* Warp Lance - as current, although instead of 1/model, it's not 1/warp charge which allows it to be effective from more than just large broods of zoanthropes. As one of the only sources of AP2 and THE only source of lance, even in this codex, this is valuable and (hopefully) worth the difficulty getting it off as a short-ranged witchfire power. Also, the one shot per charge also balances the value against the risk of Perils and the inherent difficulty of making single-shot witchfire powers useful at all (cast, deny, roll to hit). I went back and forth what to put as the primaris between this and Warp Blast, but ultimately this made more sense to me as the guaranteed power; warp blast's effect can be replicated by enough shots with other guns of worse Strength or AP, where an AP2 shooting weapon has almost no peers in this codex (by design).

* Warp Blast - just like the current one, as intended. The only difference is adding shots for additional warp charges, which balances against the difficulty of getting a witchfire power off at all (cast, deny, roll to hit, etc).

* Warp Screen - sort of an extension of the zoanthrope warp field, this gives the mechanical benefit of a 4+ invul to a psyker OR allows them to give another unit a 5+ invul. I feel a little dirty about this power because it's very similar to the rulebook telekine dome power, but it does something not found anywhere else in the codex (other than in one of the formations).

_________________
"And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."
- Edgar Allen Poe, The Masque of the Red Death


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yet another Eidre Fandex
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:07 pm 
Offline
Harpy
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:17 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: San Diego, California, USA
BIOMORPHS
One of the more significant changes that occurred to me in writing this codex. I originally was going with the same chinese menu of biomorphs which non-tyranid players always found confusing (WYSIWYG in particular).

Instead, I figured, what about compiling the possibilities in a small number of meta-biomorphs that each had both melee, shooting, and defensive advantages that were all thematically related? Then, each brood would have at most a choice of weapons and a choice of biomorph, and the interaction between the two choices would produce the range of needed effects (while reducing the possibility of abusing unintended synergies which would make costing difficult).

I used mostly existing biomorphs and added a few more, but overall the goal was to make each unit either cheap and universal (no biomorphs) or specialized for a particular kind of offensive and defensive situation. This also allowed incorporation of nichey effects that would otherwise never be purchased but fit themes nicely (like acid blood, toxic miasma, etc).

Making the biomorphs mutually incompatible also (I would hope) forces diversity in choices, because it's impossible to pick and choose the best individiual options and never take the rest. Therefore, if you want poison, you can't get a better armor save or regen, and so forth.

* Toxin Sacs - as current, but adds poison to shooting weapons as well, and makes the model immune to poison (niche effect unless you happen to be fighting DE). Presumably to specialize against high-T enemies like monstrous creatures.

* Adrenals - exactly like current (giving both Fleet and Furious makes so much sense I can't believe it didn't happen sooner). The longer range on shooting is probably the weakest available effect, but might be significant in specific cases.

* Exometallic Secretion - replacement for "extended carapace" in old codexes, and the ymgarl factor Sv bonus in the 6th ed codex. The origin of the offensive bonus was to generate the effect of the shreddershard beetle thorax swarm, but without overpowering other attacks (universal Rend would have been too much). The pattern for all of these weapons is "shred" on direct fire weapons, "shred, rend" on area effect (since you can only get one hit per target, so it's legit to make each hit more poweful). I softened this stance for larger weapons (one per brood kinda things) allowing them to get the rending effect as well. This one is probably the most valuable biomorph for MCs due to the potential for a 2+ armor save, and therefore costed among the highest.

* Electroshock fibril network - the main source for this is to allow the thorax swarm to have the same effect as the electroshock beetle version in the current codex. Universal haywire would have been too much, so for weapons available in multiple per brood I downgraded to basically a copy of the Gauss rule. Even this is kinda overboard for broods of gaunts that can field salvos of 60 low-strength shots (-> 30 hits -> 5 glances = dead land raider, or mostly dead imperial knight?) which is why I added the "one turn per game" restriction. When I was looking for defensive benefits, I recalled the old FW trygon's voltage field which seemed thematically close enough to allow a one-turn invul save (no better than 3+ since EFN is mutually exclusive with Exometal above). The intent would be that an arriving Trygon or Hive Dragon would deepstrike and pop their EFN, giving them a 3+ invul in the turn while they're standing around shooting and getting shot at. As above, the shooting benefit upgrades to Haywire for blast, template, and "one-per brood" weapons since they can inflict a limited number of hits (or are already strong enough to cause glances and so gain less from the haywire bonus).

* Acid Blood - again, packaging a strong-ish ability (improved AP) with a weaker one that no one ever took (defensive wounds) so that people might seriously consider the whole thematic package deal. The general sense is that it improves weapons to AP5, or improves AP by 1 for weapons that are already AP5 or better. As an added benefit to make this worthwhile for melee MCs and Genestealers/Rending Warriors, I added the caveat for the AP improvement to apply to Smash/Rend AP2 as well, which will give them improved ability to cause higher levels of vehicle damage (the only benefit of AP1 over AP2 that I'm aware of).

* Regeneration Node - the only biomorph with no offensive benefit at all, due to the strong defensive benefit. Designed to be useful to all types of broods (FNP) and especially good for MCs (recovering lost wounds). I got around the lack of fluff sense of letting Rippers regenerate wounds by not allowing them to have the biomorph at all. They're supposed to be expendable, not tough.

_________________
"And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."
- Edgar Allen Poe, The Masque of the Red Death


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

Web Design for Warpshadow.com by SMIS Ltd.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group