Warpshadow.com

An unofficial discussion board dedicated to the Tyranids of Warhammer 40,000 (tm Games Workshop)
It is currently Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:26 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:47 pm 
Offline
Broodling
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 am
Posts: 62
Location: Germany (BW)
Well, a big "if", i know, but lately in these days, (especially after the recent release of the craftworld-codex), I can't help but to think about what I would do to fix several issues with our beloved bugs.

So I will share a few dreams with you and would like to hear your opinions about it. Maybe you want to share some of your dreams too?
Anyway... let's begin:

ARMY RULES
... *sighs*
Synapse - We love it, we fear it
Well, Synapse can stay as it is. Let's face it: without Synapse are our bugs >>supposed<< to be useless. Thus, also if the more behaviour charts and stuff can bite, I can live with it. On the other side - as long as you provide Synapse is your whole army fearless! That is powerful! so, no changes on the behaviour charts either.

Shadow in the warp - :evil:
There had we been the bane of psykers in fluff and now this...
First, I would increase the range, from 12, onto a default of 18 inches.
The morale malus on enemy psykers would I decrease onto -2 (we have other means to decrease enemy morale if we have to), BUT, for that all nids in Shadow-range gain +2 on their warp-resistance rolls.

*NEW* Tide of teeth
When Tyranids come to a world, they swarm over the battlefields in hordes and run into the prey. - really? How many of you had lately hordes run over to your opponents troops? Where are the masses that are supposed to rush forward? The big problem is more that our nids are more crawling than running. So here is a new armywide rule stating: Any Tyranid unit that is running in the shooting phase is allowed to charge in the upcoming close combat phase.
Eldar are fast but that subtle change is something that even they nor any other army can and would fit to the tyranic style of play, fluff and options on our weapons.

Warlord Traits
Lets keep 2 & 3 on the Leviatham traits table, but the rest... Urgh...
1: Evolutionary adaption
Choose at the begin of your first turn one characteristic of your Warlord, BS, WS, S or I. Increase the one selected trait by +1.

4: Feeding Tendrils
Anytime your Warlord defeats an enemy unit in close combat, which is not a troops choice, roll a D6. On a 6+, you gain 1 Victory Point.
Modify the roll on the following if the defeated unit was a fast attack choice (-1), an elite choice (+1), an HQ choice (+2). Keep in mind that some units could be combined with models from different choices and calculate it then accordingly.
5: Tyranoformation
After deploying your army, the enemy army and the infiltrators, you may place or choose 1 piece of terrain with max. 9 inches in diameter that is either within your deployment zone, or is not within your opponents deployment zone. The placed/selected terrain is difficult terrain, dangerous to all non-tyranid models And provides a basic cover save of 5+
6: Power of the hive mind
As long as your Warlord is alive, you may re-roll once the d6 at the start of any of your psychic phase that determines how many additional warpcharges you and your opponents gain.

UNITS
From any monstrous creature with I decrease the point costs about at least 50 points on each.
Let's compare the Alphawarrior, one of our "smallest" HQ choices, to the Autarch of the Eldar.
In some some characteristics is the Alphawarrior superior to it, but given to the costs and variaty of options the Autarch has is that so redundant, that I really can't see why our Alphawarrior shouldn't have at last a base point cost of 80 and then also some more neat options to choose from. Like wings, making him an Alpha-shrike?
By the way, tyranid warriors... Let's face it: giving them eternal warrior wouldn't feel right. They are not supposed to survive massive weapon fire. They are after all a standard troops choice. But they aren't cost effective either and that is their main issue. So, they stay as they are by their rules, but the base cost of 30 per model is absurd. I think 20 would be more fitting and even with that would I feel dirty when I look at them.
Termagaunts. The tyranid archetype. I feel my Starcraft-likings breaking through and say that the base costs for those should be 3 points per model, but for that can units increase only by 2 models per increase, thus you must spend 6 points on each number increase. The base number on 10 stays, the maximum on 30 stays. Hormagaunts det a 1 point drop too.
Genestealers... once THE assault unit, now you could paints them as living target practice. Lets give them a rule I call "Shadowlurkers" and that allows them to move additional 3 inches when they run while being in cover and 12 inches away from opponents.
I know it bites not to attack when deep striking or outflanking and giving something something to the nids to negate that seems too powerful to me. BUT what about the methods we arrive in? Hello, Mr. Trygon... I heard you burrow tunnel for our troops. What you think? Could we allow following troops that come after you through that tunnel to charge? Yes? Oh,how sweet of you. Sorry you can't get that. You had to burrow the tunnel after all, but for that we could make your electric discharge either a tesla or Haywire weapon. Would you rather like that? Yes? Me too.
Hive & tyrant guards... highly specialized... highly prized... and elite choice... *sigh* stay elite, increase in max numbers (6, like for Zoas), get one more Wound in the profile and get a point drop to 40 points. For any who think a T6 model shouldn't be so cheap - Wraithguards have T6 and cost only 36 points. True, they have only one wound, but come on a minimum of 5 guys and have f*****g destroyer weapons. I say our guards still don't have a chance and yet cost more. Meh...
Maleceptor... or Lolceptor as it is now. This one and toxicrene need a complete overwork. Details are too much to list on here now at this time. I'll add them later.
Sporocyte - becomes a new rule, which I call stationary support. On an additional cost of 15 points, it takes then no spot in heavy support, like a tyrannocyte. When it takes the spot, it gains the spore mine canon to fire spore mines like a biovore, additionally to all it's prior rules.
Zoanthropes (& Doom-lite) - A brood of 4 or more Zoas generate 1 additional warp charge die for each additional Zoa that makes the brood bigger than 3 Zoas. Example: 3 Zoas still generate "only" 2 dice, a brood of 5 would generate 4 dice, 6 zoas would generate 5 dice. Why I want that? Look at the new Eldar Warlock council, then you know why.
Raveners... base cost is 25 and gains a rule that allows after deepstriking, a brood of raveners may assault/charge if they haven't shot in the prior shooting phase.

WEAPONS
The living ammonition rle returns to some weapons. Failed to wound die can be re-rolled, but must get then 6's to wound.
Prefered Enemy mus have still its use, right?

PSI POWERS
Since Tyranids are the only one Army that is excluded from ANY psionic disciplines in the rulebook, I would create two tables of Psionic powers.
One would be "Collective Synapse powers", the other "Hive Mind Powers".
The "Collective Synapse powers" would contain "spells" that are supposed to support nid-troops and mostly contain blessings and maybe one or two curses. The "Hive Mind Powers" are the offensive one.
Get Catalyst, Dominion & co under "Collective Synapse powers", and Warpblast, psychic shriek & co under "Hive Mind Powers".

Okay, enough for today. I wrote now nearly 2 hours on this. I'll soon add more ideas on troops, like the Maleceptor & Toxicrene, more Weapon shinigans and what other psi-stuff I could imagine.
Good night.

_________________
"Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none."


Last edited by Wolfstone on Sun May 03, 2015 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Nid powers!
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 4:18 am 
Offline
Broodling
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 am
Posts: 62
Location: Germany (BW)
Sooooo, what do we give the nids?

Let's start on "Collective Synapse powers".

Primary: Dominion, as it is
1: Catalyst, but with range 18, else keep it as it is.
2: The horror, As it is, with the modification that the -2 morale malus gets after the pinning test reduced to -1, but stays till the next psi phase, regardless if the pinning test was failed or not.
3: Onslaught - stays as it is (with the new rule to enable to charge after running is this way more interesting)
4: Fleshgrasp - units killed in in close combat before they had theit initiative step may still attack, before they are removed as casualties (sounds familiar, eh? :mrgreen: )
5: Hundred eyes - blessing, 1 warp charge, select a friendly unit in 12 inches and treat all the coming shots fired as twin-linked, till next psi phase.
6: Warpworm - 3 warp charges. Select a unit from your reserves that is not a flying or colossal creature. Deploy at once the unit within 9 inches around the psyker via deep strike.

"Hive Mind Powers"
Primary: Shadow Cast - increase the range of shadow in the warp of the psyker on 6 inches (psykers without SITW, gain a SITW of 6 inch radius).
1: Paroxysm - keep it as it is
2: Leech Essence - 2 warp charges, Witch fire, nova of 3 inches. Each enemy model in range gets hit with 1x S3, AP3. if at least one wound has been sucessfully suffered, the psyker gains a single wound, if he lost any, up to it's profile maximum.
3: Psychic Scream - as it is
4: Hypnotic gaze - 1 warp charge, focused Witchfire, on success, the hit/selected enemy model may not fire, and use any attacks till the next psi phase.
5: Microcontrol - 1 warp charge, curse, select an enemy unit in 18" and decrease it cover save (if it has any) by 1.
6: Warpblast - keep it as it is, but change the lance, by removing lance and make the strength "D".

_________________
"Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 1:48 am 
Offline
Hive Tyrant
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:40 pm
Posts: 943
Location: Alberta, Canada
While I'm not an admin, this probably Belongs in the divergent evolution forum. However I do like you psychic powers tables. Though one question where is the Warpworm idea coming from it's new to me.

_________________
I like to think of this forum as a gentleman's club, where we all sit in huge chairs by a roaring fire wearing robes, smoking from pipes and discussing the finer points of voracious space-beasts.
-Bocks

Termagant: A stock character, replaceable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 1:40 pm 
Offline
Broodling
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 am
Posts: 62
Location: Germany (BW)
I thought given this is supposed to be a discussion and not my presentation of my actual "new" codex, I thought it would have fit here well. :wink:

As for the warpworm, that has actually been from an older tyranid background, where tyranid ships still have travelled through the warp, but where i thought it could still exist.
It is first mentioned in advanced space crusade and works like that:
The warpworm is a tyranid creature that has its actual body in the warp, protected by the shadow generated of the tyranid fleet, but has several appendages which connect to a mothership, which serves primary as its host, in the normal reality zone.
if a tyranid wants to use the worm, it enters the cyst that connects the mothership with the worm, gets sucked in by the worm, and the worm delivers it then to its destination, which, given its body is in the warp, happens near instantly.
It is a tyranid version of teleportation.
My idea on the battlefield is that the transported unit gets sucked in by the worm, who stretched then from the mother ship far down to the planet surface to vomit out into battle.

_________________
"Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:22 pm 
Offline
Hive Tyrant
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:40 pm
Posts: 943
Location: Alberta, Canada
Cool, Though of your rules I love Flesh grasp, it's such a Tyranid thing to do to make your dead keep moving for a while to finish the job.

Tide of teeth seems reasonable.

_________________
I like to think of this forum as a gentleman's club, where we all sit in huge chairs by a roaring fire wearing robes, smoking from pipes and discussing the finer points of voracious space-beasts.
-Bocks

Termagant: A stock character, replaceable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:06 pm 
Offline
Great Devourer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:39 am
Posts: 5676
Location: Canberra, Australia
Shadow in the Warp and the current psychic mechanics are weird as they are.

You could argue that the sheer number of warp charge dice we can generate for Deny the Witch rolls is attributable to the Shadow in the Warp and leave it at that. But that's not entirely satisfying even if it was ditching a rule that rarely gets used.

Another approach I like is having tyranids (either a full army or a detachment of us) don't generate any warp charge at all in the opponents psychic phase (so no Deny the Witch rolls) but have a blanket rule called Shadow in the Warp that makes all non-tyranid psychic powers much harder to manifest. (I like the wording of that as it would mean two tyranid armies don't have any protection against each others psychic powers. It just seems right.)

What I'd like most is for Shadow in the Warp to just function like a psychic hood. It is simple, easy to remember, and uses an existing rule that all players know.

_________________
"I know you may find the Tyranids physically repellent to look at but believe you me, you don't want to let them out of your sight." Hojan Storall Technomagos of the Adeptus Mechanicus

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/Yaleling/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 12:39 am 
Offline
Broodling
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 am
Posts: 62
Location: Germany (BW)
You won't see again rules that have a battlefield wide power, just for having at leaset one model with the special rule in.

In armies of us where we have no psykers, can we still have several models that have the shadow in the warp rule. At the current ruleset would they not benefit from the idea that our warp charges would deny anything.

The problem with psychic hood is, that it belongs to the space marines, and GW is very icky about giving stuff that belongs SM's to others. Besides, do the rules for psychic hood not feel very tyranidic to me.

The presence of the Shadow disturbs psykers and makes them ill concentrated.
Yes, you could argue if a higher deny the witch roll, or a higher channelling roll can represent that, but when I see with which psychic might the Eldar >>will<< come on us, I rather would want a higher resistance roll.
They just need 1 fully equipped seer council and have already more than enough warp charges than we could ever hope to generate.

_________________
"Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 2:57 pm 
Offline
Broodling
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 am
Posts: 62
Location: Germany (BW)
Aaaanyway, on to the toxicrene.
What is the toxicrene anyway? A method to kill high res monsters? Tough luck on that. the big problem with the big guy - well, he's big.
You could paint him white and with red circles on his head. He's a big target and thus the ability with him to ambush anything is near zero.
His armor is 4+, not very great on a monster. He has his own shroud, yay, but comes a weapon that ignores cover... you get my point.

Sooooo, what could we do to fix that?

First of course we make his armor save 3+. What's good for the Exocrine or the Haruspex, is also good for the Toxicrene. It should be anyway a standard on mostrous Tyranids (yes I'm looking at you Maleceptor!). And for being a big toxic gas bag monster should it be not to heavy to give it also the spore-cloud generation rule á la Venomthrope.
It's special rules can it all keep. But then... how we fix the issue about it to get it to a point where it can do its work?

Spore pod? = no attack :(
Same for deep strike.

Infiltration? Hmmm...
Let it infiltrate with a brood of lictors as company (which would profit from it's shroud cloud) and suddenly do things look different, eh?

And to it's shooting attack. For it self, a fun idea. Just too useless against things with bigger armor. Som when attacking a vehicle that is open topped or has a hull point lost, get aside armourbane also +2 on strength.
Still maybe a tad too off for armour 14, but for that area anyway other means.

_________________
"Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 1:13 pm 
Offline
Broodling
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 am
Posts: 62
Location: Germany (BW)
Now on to the Maleceptor. From the design it looks a lot like a cross betwen old-school zoanthropes with a carnifex. A fine idea!

As mentioned before, 3+ armor is mandatory on big bugs.
Aside of that, is main issue with this big guy that he spposed to be a psi-monster. And that he is, but the big trouble is that comes with no significant power.
*bitch slasps the GW designer with genestealer claws*

Ahem...
Well, so it profile can stay as it is, we have to work on its psi-potential.

The idea of the power to be psionic tendrils that pop enemy heads is okay, but to pass each time 2 warpcharges on each try for a single attack on which you have still to hit? Those guys in the design studio smoke crazy shit.
Alone for being such a big bug with a brain larger than the torso of a hive tyrant, I demand it to be a level 3 Psyker!
And for it's power, let it be 2 warp charges, BUT, for that we make it a Nova with a range on 24 inches and the limit of hitting at maximum 3 different units. If more are in range, the tyranid player must decide which 3 enemy units are inflicted.
Than makes each unit (or vehicle with morale 10) their 3d6 morale checks. But on fail, not d3 wounds, but d3 x 2 wounds! Vehicles may still cash in a single glancing hit on fail.

_________________
"Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 3:04 pm 
Offline
Broodling
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 am
Posts: 62
Location: Germany (BW)
Trygons

They pop up, die and leave a useless hole, since after them no reserves still came on...
That sums up my experiences with them.

On BOLS have I recently found a fascinating article that regards the same topic as I name it here: how to fix the buggies.
And for trygons had they a very interesting option:
give them a rule to be a dedicated transport
That idea has only one kick in the toxin sacs - we have already one transport monster. The Tyranocytes.

Instead I would give Trygons an option/special rule to set their tunnels one turn one, but with having still to roll on reserves before they come up from the tunnels.
Maybe they have caved in or something else delays their immediate deploy, but after turn one can they and at least one other non-flying unit emerge from the tunnel.

_________________
"Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:08 pm 
Offline
Hatchling
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:08 am
Posts: 43
Location: MD, USA
What about an option to set a seismic activity marker on turn one and have the trygon arrive within so many inches of it on turn two without counting as being in reserves if you used this method, it was always on the field just under it digging its way up. That offsets the rapid arrival of the trygon by the opponent knowing it was coming and being able to prepare. A very risky trade depending on how you want to use it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:01 am 
Offline
Biotitan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:32 am
Posts: 2048
Location: Los Angeles
I think there's an opportunity to really make Shadows in the Warp hurt like it did before.

Quote:
Shadows in the Warp
Enemy models within 12" of at least one friendly Tyranid model with this rule suffers a -1 penalty to its Psychic Generation rolls when attempting to manifest Psychic Powers; it generates Warp Charges on a 5+ instead of a 4+. If a second friendly Tyranid unit with at least one model possessing Shadows in the Warp is within 12" of this same Psyker, the Psyker suffers an additional -1 penalty; it generates Warp Charges on a 6+ instead of a 4+. If an enemy Psyker is within 12" of three or more friendly Tyranid units with at least one model possessing Shadows in the Warp, that Psyker cannot attempt to generate any Psychic Powers during its Psychic Phase, though it still contributes dice to the Warp Pool equal to its Mastery Level.

If an Independent Character with Shadows in the Warp joins a unit with other models with Shadows in the Warp, that unit only reduces Psychic Generation rolls by -1, even if the Independent Character and at least one model from the unit it joined are within 12" of the same Psyker.


If we get a rule like this, I would be perfectly fine having no D weapons available to us. (b~_^)b


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:36 am 
Offline
Little One
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:43 am
Posts: 130
...


Last edited by PolishSwarm on Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 4:06 am 
Offline
Broodling
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:46 am
Posts: 62
Location: Germany (BW)
While looking at the Culexus, I can understand that copying it's rule sounds tasty, but I would not.
I have still the fluff in the back of my head nagging at me and it says that the Shadow is a warp-born effect. The culexus is a pariah, which means his presence nullifies warp activity.
So also while they have similiar effects, does the Shadow not nullify warp activity. But it makes psykers ill concentrated.

I also don't see why more modells would increase the Shadow's strength (since it actually should be a planet wide phenomen).

The ideas are surely neat (for us) but mostlikely to powerful.
However, considdering the culexus, our current shadow rules, the rules for the shadow incarnate from Valedor and having an eye on something as nasty as the Eldar seer council, I revoke my idea into this:

***RULE***
Range - 18 inches (yes, bigger than common Synapse)
Effect - Non-tyranid psykers within range decrease their moralae by 2. To channel/activate warp energy for powers, they have to roll 5+, regardless of rules, items or powers that would grant them to roll better. Friendly Tyranid units that are withing range get +1 on their warp-resistance rolls.
Special rule - When a model gains by any means a Synapse range that is bigger than Shadow range, the range of the Shadow increases on the same ammout to have same size than the increased synapse range, but also decraeases if the range goes back, to it's minimum of 18 inches.
***END***

_________________
"Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: If I could write the next Nid-Codex...
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:23 pm 
Offline
Biotitan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:32 am
Posts: 2048
Location: Los Angeles
If the SitW is going to expand to match what the Synapse Range can be, I think a fair rule would be to state its range matches the SitW range, or 12" if the model possessing SitW does not also have the Synapse rule.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

Web Design for Warpshadow.com by SMIS Ltd.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group