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 Post subject: Are Shrikes worth it? (Also Toxicrenes because why not)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:27 pm 
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Little One
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So I'll preface this by saying that I'm really not much of a player. I don't really have anyone to play against (yet) and I'm really into 40K for the modelling and painting. That said, I do enjoy the game (what little I have played) and want to have a collection that at least can hold its own in friendly/casual environments.

TL;DR I don't particularly care about having a WAAC army that can demolish tournaments but at the same time I don't want to be completely steamrolled.

So anyway. Tyranid Shrikes. Warriors With Wings. Are they any good, and if so, how best to run them? From what I'm aware, equipping them for melee isn't really a particularly good idea. However, it did occur to me that equipping them all with Deathspitters and maybe giving one of them a Barbed Strangler or Venom Cannon would be a good way to get some highly maneuverable firepower in the army- which coupled with Synapse, would make them excellent rapid support units. On the downside, they are fairly expensive at 30 points a model (35 with Deathspitters) and are fairly squishy. If I were to run Shrikes, would it be better to only go for a few, or go crazy with Unbound and have swarms of 'em as the main "troops" as it were? Or would I be better off just using Warriors as my main Synapse providers?

Also, on a completely unrelated note, how good is the Toxicrene? He certainly looks pretty good on paper, but he is slow and has only got a 4+ save. Tyrannocyte job maybe, or avoid altogether?

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 Post subject: Re: Are Shrikes worth it? (Also Toxicrenes because why not)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:38 am 
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Little One
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Hi Squigsquasher!

I'll start by saying that I haven't actually used Shrikes, but have used my Toxicrene (Mr Tickle) plenty.

I also am in the same boat as you, going for friendly games, using 'weaker' units for the fun of it and just in general, enjoying the game for what it is, not trying to cheese out and take triple flyrant lists etc.

Shrikes:
I've used Warriors and Raveners before and really, they're an amalgamation of the 2. My experience with both is that they are dangerous in friendly games, able to deal out a butt-load of hurt depending on what you kit them out with/who you're facing. My Warrior preference is rending claws and deathspitters (adding toxin sacs for flavour if i have the points) because i face orks a lot and those strength 5 shots and potential rending are great for dealing with any trukks/battlewagons etc that I face a lot of. Saying that, they die very very easily when your opponent knows that they are a key lynch-pin to your force and they can pack a punch. any Ap4 coming their way removes them fast. Raveners are even more fragile, so expect this fragility from Shrikes. They will tear a lot of things limb from limb in combat (I always give mine rending claws), but once you've finished your attacks, prepare to start taking the raveners off. They're a glass-hammer alright, so pick your targets very carefully and aim to get stuck in combat during your opponents turn. Weapon-wise I imagine you'd want to keep Shrikes cheap, given how quickly they drop, so maybe the same versitility I give my Warriors with the claws/spitters combo? At the same time I've heard people having success with Lashwhip-Bonesword Shrikes, but damn are they expensive. I plan to actually make up some Shrikes come the new year, so could get back to you then.

Toxicrene:
To me, the perfect example of the synergy the Tyranids rely on. Always pair your Toxicrene with something else and (in general) never send him/her in against something by themselves. My Toxicrene enjoys going about with a big brood of toxic hormagaunts or my dimachaeron. Plop your 'crene in a building on an objective and laugh as your opponent wastes shots at your 2+ cover save. The 2+ poison combined with that many attacks is rocking, but the WS 3 does cripple it somewhat. Chuck your 'crene at something that is fairly defenseless in combat, such as Dark Reapers who have a decent armour save, seen as, you know, you'll be ignoring it and have little fear of taking wounds due to your high toughness. My Toxicrene has never died during any of my games just because I kept him away from danger units, always made sure he was in cover/surrounded by small gribblies and only attacking when the time is right. Being greedy with him will cost you I think. As to the fart cloud he can produce, meh, it's destroyed a trukk for me, once, but other than it's done squat. Still though, I'd rate him pretty damn high just because of how good he is in combat against shooting threats (see Tau battlesuits, Eldar dark reapers etc), great synergy and hilarious cover shenanigans. Don't expect him to perform miracles, but use him carefully and you've got a nasty creature that your opponent will learn to want to avoid.

Hope that helps!

Iron Nid.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Shrikes worth it? (Also Toxicrenes because why not)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:30 am 
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Little One
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Thanks!

Hmm. The Toxicrene actually sounds pretty good. I wonder if a pair of them would be viable? Tyranid monsters seem to perform best in pairs after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Are Shrikes worth it? (Also Toxicrenes because why not)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:16 pm 
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Little One
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I've always wanted to run a pair of Toxicrene in my army, but I always like a mix of things. Maybe one day I shall!

I think the same thing would apply and you'd want them synergising with something else. I wouldn't try to get them both against the same unit, personally. Keep them separate, double the threat and make sure there's a bigger, juicier target for your opponent to take out. For example, my Dimachaeron scares the crap out of opponents, so the Toxicrene lurking along behind it is generally always ignored until it's far too late and he's deep into an enemy unit, along with the Dimachaeron and (hopefully) a bunch of Hormagaunts.

i love the monsters, I can't help myself always having 3-4 in all my lists. I just want my Haruspex (Harry) to perform a bit better and not get mulched by power-weapon wielding units every game!

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 Post subject: Re: Are Shrikes worth it? (Also Toxicrenes because why not)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:55 pm 
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Big One
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I really can't comment on shrikes but I feel like the toxicrene on paper is a huge disappointment.

Its close to being awesome but it suffers from alot of the classic pitfalls of nid MC's but also some new ones. WS3 poor, 6 inch move is poor (needs to be a beast) but the big issue I have is the 4+ save vs the carnifex or other MC's with a 3+ even if it has shrouding.

Many common ignores cover units are AP4 like IG autocannons with an order, or tau broadsides with missiles, so these will wound on 3+ with no save while the lonely fex at least gets its 3+ armour save.

The toxicrenes gun is short range and not great, plus it can't help vs flyers so for less points I would rather take a dakkafex with better range and much better guns.

Sadly the toxicrene even fails at what its designed to do-murder things in CC. Yes you can get some lucky instant death hits and take out a wraithknight but you might lose to 10 marines in CC! If they are in cover you will attack after them and on average the toxicrene will die after 2 rounds only killing 6 of them, while that same carnifex will defeat all 10 but in 5 rounds-but it still wins. If the marines aren't in cover the toxicrene can win on turn 3-4 vs the fexes turn 5 but thats still slow and it will take about 4 wounds in the process. Why is that? Krak Grenades are AP4 and just murder the toxicrene but the fex gets its 3+.

I would love to say the toxicrene is competitve but I can't, use it in fun games only. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Are Shrikes worth it? (Also Toxicrenes because why not)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:07 pm 
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Yep... at least the toxicrene model is awesome though! That's why I used most of it in my dimachaeron conversion.

I think shrikes can be useful, and are definitely a good choice for something like kill team. The have a benefit of somewhat mobile synapse for not super expensive, so could perhaps work as a backfield counter assault unit. Shooting wise, the only gun worth any points is the barbed strangler. Devourers are good guns, though you can buy 3 devourer gaunts for one warrior or shrike netting 3 times as many shots. However, if you're buying shrikes just to get a barbed strangler, why not just stick with regular warriors and keep the extra armour - you don't really need to move to fire the gun.

Shrikes with bonesword, lash whip, scytals and flesh hooks are a pretty nasty, though expensive little assault unit. You'd have to keep them in ruins or out of sight to keep them alive, but they could easily butcher most flavours of marines if they caught them. On the down side, any terminators or any unit with a hidden power fist will splat them easily. Still, at least they can go where they want without synapse baby sitting them and cause trouble, so they're halfway decent.

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 Post subject: Re: Are Shrikes worth it? (Also Toxicrenes because why not)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:34 am 
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Little One
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bugsculptor wrote:
Yep... at least the toxicrene model is awesome though! That's why I used most of it in my dimachaeron conversion.

I think shrikes can be useful, and are definitely a good choice for something like kill team. The have a benefit of somewhat mobile synapse for not super expensive, so could perhaps work as a backfield counter assault unit. Shooting wise, the only gun worth any points is the barbed strangler. Devourers are good guns, though you can buy 3 devourer gaunts for one warrior or shrike netting 3 times as many shots. However, if you're buying shrikes just to get a barbed strangler, why not just stick with regular warriors and keep the extra armour - you don't really need to move to fire the gun.

Shrikes with bonesword, lash whip, scytals and flesh hooks are a pretty nasty, though expensive little assault unit. You'd have to keep them in ruins or out of sight to keep them alive, but they could easily butcher most flavours of marines if they caught them. On the down side, any terminators or any unit with a hidden power fist will splat them easily. Still, at least they can go where they want without synapse baby sitting them and cause trouble, so they're halfway decent.

Thanks for the reply!

In all honesty, the real reason I'm considering using Shrikes is I have a good idea for a conversion that I really want to use (Plague Drone wings and extended, clawed legs to make "locust Warriors"). I was originally considering a bunch of them just armed with Deathspitters, allowing for a highly mobile anti-infantry "shoot and leg it" type unit, but the kitted up CC Shrikes actually sound pretty effective.

Would it be worth replacing the Scytals with Rending Claws to allow them to pop light vehicles?

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 Post subject: Re: Are Shrikes worth it? (Also Toxicrenes because why not)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:21 pm 
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I think with the bonesword + lashwhip and flesh hooks they're already getting spendy. The flesh hooks let them use the inititive boost from the bonesword though, so should mean they strike before anything else.

Rending claws aren't going to be much extra use, apart from against 2+ armour targets like terminators, which you want to avoid at all costs. Thunder hammers or fists will splat your warriors, so don't even think about it. You really want to find some 3+ armour troops for these guys to chew up. They shouldn't be attacking vehicles unless something goes really wrong or they run out of targets. They already glance rhinos on sixes, so all rending claws get for 5 points each is the unlikely ability to glance AV 11, 12 and 13. If I had points to use up, I would get adrenal glands, to give fleet and an increased chance to glance / pen light vehicles and also hurt monstrous creatures on the charge.

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