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 Post subject: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:53 pm 
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Biomass

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:02 pm
Posts: 9
Hey guys,

Last time I posted I was absolutely stoked with the response I got as a new player.

I'm still exploring my options for a 1000pt list.

How do we fare as an all-out melee attack force? I think the only reason I ask is because I really enjoy the melee aspect but really want to play Tyranid. It may not be a full-blown tournament list but I was after something a bit different to the twin-devourer type list I got last time.

Any thoughts on a 1000pt list?

And any tips or tricks or tactics?

Greatly appreciated!

I was hoping to include two carnifex I already have sitting in boxes!

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:40 pm 
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Hatchling
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You could spend half of those points on a maximally upgraded trygon prime with both melee bio-artefacts... but you probably shouldn't :(
You could also put in the swarmlord because he's supposed to be the ubermelee badass blademaster legend of the tyranids... but you probably shouldn't do that either unless you can throw some tyrant guard in to meat shield him.
The big mean enemy guns never let the huge melee guys reach the fun and you don't want half your points being dropped before you get to actually have fun with them.

Having a big shooty thing usually distracts from your melee guys because the shooty thing is hurting the enemy now and the melee things will take some time to start causing pain but if everything is melee they are going to try to shoot down the biggest one before anything can reach them because there is no more immediate danger than the hulking beast lumbering it's way up to the line.
you could try to get around this by having fast things like hormies and shrikes rushing them, or some infiltrating genestealers that start out too close for comfort, ideally you want to distract from the big stuff long enough that it can get in and deal it's damage. conversely you can use the big stuff as a distraction to take the shots until the little stuff can overrun the enemy. I've had a single genestealer glance the enemies last tank to death but you usually don't want to be stuck 1 genestealer vs. 1 tank so make sure that if they do gun down the big guys you still have enough punch left over to stand up to the things that killed the big guys.

Maybe you could go with hormagaunts and shrikes running/flying ahead with a tyranid prime and some warriors to babysit the fexes, maybe some genestealers to go where your synapse wont reach? thats what one of my friends basically plays except he also has a mawloc and lictor but I don't have the books in front of me to look up points and see what exactly you have space for.
some venomthropes to give shrouded might also help keep the evil bullets away while you get into range in case there isn't some terrain to deny lines of fire.

If you are playing for fun ask the opponent if you can add more terrain to the board if it's available. I own a lot of little trees so that I can set up a massive forest where melee really shines because you can't draw line of sight until it's too late to shoot. Most people probably won't like that but if you find some friends who want to play fluffy battles like that then you'll be all set to have your melee fun.

I'm sure everyone else has more solid tips than me on the way.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:42 am 
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Norn Queen wut can has cookie
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Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:11 am
Posts: 2262
Location: the Netherlands
Melee... Well, I keep trying as well, although so far I'm not always getting the greatest results.

Viking had a lot of good points: Melee nids won't start hurting until they arrive, and they will receive a lot of fire back while they move up. As you can expect to lose a fair few wounds while shooting, the best option is often to keep things cheap: that way whenever the enemy deals a wound, it costs you comparatively less points. At some point there's a tipping point though, where you lose balance; if you keep things too cheap, they will still be ineffectual when they eventually reach combat.

I think Viking also had it right in saying you need to be able to pressure your opponent quickly. It's why I brought the sporefield formation (3 small sporemine broods and 3 large sporemine broods, minimum pts 90) last time and infiltrated them close. It hemmed my opponent in and forced him to make decisions on what to shoot, and though I still lost in the end, I think it may have been worse if I hadn't brought the mines.

When it comes to hormagaunts, I'm still on the fence. I really want to like these guys, but I'm not sure how to get the most out of them at the moment.
Also, it's likely you will need some shooting still, to pry enemies hiding in their transports out of said vehicles before you move in for an assault. Much more preferable than first assaulting the vehicle to be counter assaulted next turn. Or just shot point blank.

Also, may I ask why you prefer the melee version? Is it the image of the visceral combat you like, or is it because you don't like tyranids walking around with ranged weapons as if they're rifles/pistols? If the latter is the case, you can also try finding your answer not in changing the army list, but in changing the models; kinda like what I did with these devourer gaunts or hive guard (the latter of which will soon get an updated design):
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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:50 pm 
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Biotitan
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:32 am
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Location: Los Angeles
I play a lot of CC oriented Tyranid lists and found success once the Dataslates came out with the all the formations we have at our disposal. Indispensable formations to use for a CC-heavy list include any combination of the following:

  • Manufactorum Genestealers
    This is my favorite. Five units of five Genestealers--no more, no less--that can infiltrate within 6" of an enemy unit if you infiltrate into a ruin terrain. A great way to apply immediate pressure from multiple vectors on Turn 1 to allow the rest of your army to catch up and engage relatively intact.
  • Broodlord's Hunting Pack
    A great one to use in the event your opponents like Fortifications or you play with lots of buildings on the board. You can enter play from reserves straight into an unoccupied building. A great way to undermine a Fortification with multilple building components like the Fortress of Redemption or the Aquila Strongpoints.
  • Deathleaper's Assassin Brood
    Another of my favorites. Six solo Lictors (counting the Deathleaper as a Lictor here) that can Infiltrate in multiples behind the same terrain but can only be singled out one at a time unless blast templates are used to hit more than one at a time. Infiltrate some on Turn 1 for immediate pressure, DS the rest with pinpoint accuracy in their backfield as you see fit.
  • Subterranean Swarm
    A favorite but expensive to field. You can almost dedicate an entire force to this Formation alone and name a Red Terror as your Warlord were it not for the fact it has to go into reserve as one entire "unit". They all go into reserve together, come on the board together on one roll and transform the battleground from empty to "In your face!" in no time flat. Big monsters and multi-wound Raveners with a snap of the fingers.
  • Sporefield
    As pointed out by vonny, this is a great way to apply constant pressure through initial Infiltrates. Best part is on a 4+ the destroyed units come back. Even better is they can come back through DS Ongoing Reserves where you need them most.
  • Skytyrant Swarm
    The more Gargoyles you add, the more likely you are to get your Flyrant into CC. The easiest way to ensure your MC closes with a choice target on Turn 2 thanks to the 12" move and d6 Run. Equip everything with Adrenal Glands and you have Fleet to boot as insurance for maximized closure speed.

Mixing this with a CAD or HFD contingent to fill other units to taste for Tyrannocytes and other MC drops that aren't available through Formations (e.g. Haruspexes) or just to add Tyrannocytes to mix and match with optimal MCs from other formations like the Hypertoxic Node, Neural Node or Wrecker Node, can really transform your army into a high-pressure list your opponent will have trouble dealing with.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:04 am 
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Little One
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Last edited by PolishSwarm on Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:37 am 
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Harpy
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Posts: 2257
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Although I wouldn't rate it at "reliable", if you're willing to go through the pain of assembling, painting, transporting, and moving 30 gargoyles, they make a a good spoiler unit to run ahead of your force.

For less than 200 points, you can have them spread out to nearly the full width of a standard board, leaving behind a tail to stay within 6" of a venomthrope. For maximum effect, roll lucky on your psychic power roll and put Catalyst on them as well (5+ cover and 5+ FNP is better than a 4+ invulnerable save).

Unless the enemy has lots of jump/jetbike/flyer/skimmer units, they are forced to deal with the wave of gargoyles first, because if they don't it's assaulting them in turn 2-3 (depending on charge rolls). This provides psychological (and actual) cover to the rest of the force that is moving up behind.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:33 am 
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Little One
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Last edited by PolishSwarm on Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:49 am 
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Harpy
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
PolishSwarm wrote:
@Eidre

good post!

Just remember that ID ignores FNP, so S6 and higher weapons (like enemy tyrants) make catalyst useless. Nevertheless it is perfectly fine when Hive Tyrant casts catalyst on himself and brood of gargoyles.


I love it when enemy armies fire S6+ weapons at W1 cheap models to negate FNP, because it means that's one more medium or heavy weapon that's not being aimed at a T6 monster; doing that to negate a 5+ FNP roll on a 6 point model is false efficiency IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:05 pm 
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Medium One

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:51 pm
Posts: 314
Venomthropes and FnP (if you get it) are what can keep your melee alive.

I run a CC heavy list as well, but it's not pure. I like to have some shooting, just to deal with or distract things.

As for hormagaunts, I love em. They are my tarpit units. I run em up naked, and just get something in CC to keep it from shooting. If they actually kill anything in CC, that's just icing on the cake. It then buys time and shooting for the bigger hitters (Warriors, Fexes, Haruspexes, yes I love them,) to move in and mulch things.

I've been playing around with Lictor broods jumping into CC as soon as possible, and then dropping mawlocs into the combat I'm involved in. I don't have many mawlocs, but the times I've done it, it worked great. =)

Laser Guided Mawlocs, they're fun. =)


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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:03 am 
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Little One
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Last edited by PolishSwarm on Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:53 am 
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Little One
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Last edited by PolishSwarm on Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:47 pm 
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Medium One

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:51 pm
Posts: 314
PolishSwarm wrote:
DigestedFotoGuy wrote:
As for hormagaunts, I love em. They are my tarpit units. I run em up naked, and just get something in CC to keep it from shooting. If they actually kill anything in CC, that's just icing on the cake. It then buys time and shooting for the bigger hitters (Warriors, Fexes, Haruspexes, yes I love them,) to move in and mulch things.


I don't think hormagaunts are that good option against balanced lists. They can tarpit only if they are in synapse range. Wise players will cut them off from synapse and then force leadership test. Termagants are cheaper for that purpose.


I run broods of 30 hormies for that reason. I tried with smaller numbers, you can sort of pull it off with a brood of 20, but I find that 30 is the best. The brood is so large that it's hard to take down 30 models with 5+ cover, and potential 5+ FnP. They also move fast, which means they don't spend much time not engaged.

Also, if they want to focus all their fire power on a naked brood of 30 hormie gaunts, it means they're not shooting at other things.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:55 pm 
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Little One
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Last edited by PolishSwarm on Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:05 am 
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Biotitan
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I routinely run CC oriented Tyranid lists. I routinely do quite well with them. I explained how I have success with them. You dismissed it with what every army has to counter it. Others post examples, but you dismiss them with a different list of things that counter them, ignoring the fact that there's no way an opponent can put all of that in one list.

To say Tyranids are "not even OK" at CC is incredibly narrow-minded. I can tell you quite definitively that my opponents HATE getting engaged with my Tyranid force. They wouldn't have that attitude if they were "not even OK" at CC.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee Tactica, Still Exploring Options
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:29 am 
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Little One
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