Warpshadow.com

An unofficial discussion board dedicated to the Tyranids of Warhammer 40,000 (tm Games Workshop)
It is currently Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:29 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:21 am 
Offline
Biomass

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:45 am
Posts: 6
Flyrant:
So im makeing my first list and I have been debating on a flyrant build. I have him set on battlescribe as a 265 point hq after adding wings and regen, replacing both talons with twin linked devourer and heavy venom cannon. I considered adding the ymgarl factor to him but was unsure about the point increase considering he is already a high cost and the thought that he will be a high priority target. Should I keep the venom cannon or swap for another set of devourers?

Carnifex:
I have built this unit to be a melee fighter with ranged weaponry as an option. He has standard talons with a set of twin linked devourers and a thresher scythe tail. I currently have him set with acid blood, toxin sacs, and regen. He comes in at 200 even and I'm lookin for opinions.

Ultimately I will mostly be playin against an array of armies: tau, necrons, space marines, and dark elder.

Edit: I have not played my first game yet so I am not sure of what is and isn't useful.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:06 am 
Offline
Biotitan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 2468
Location: Cumberland, Maryland
I have used many variants of the Hive Tyrant, and thus far, the most effective has been the tried-and-true DualDevFlyrant.

Two sets of Devourers and (of course!) Wings.

The amount of fire this beast can dish out is astonishing. The Hive Tyrant is already BS4, but with Twin-Linking these guns, you're likely to get 10 to 12 (no kidding!) hits at [Decent Strength]. Enough to wound Marines on a [ 2 ] !

Even Terminators will fall from the firepower of this build.

And being a Swooping Monstrous Creature, unless your opponent has Skyfire, the Hive Tyrant will only be hit on a [ 6 ]. You can declare Jink for that [Jink Save].


Again, for the Carnifex, two sets of Devourers is king.


* Sorry had to censor actual rolls and rules.

_________________
Check out my Award-Winning Horribly Painted 'Nids

I Spent 90% of My Money on Women and Warhammer. The Rest I Wasted....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:18 am 
Offline
Biomass

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:45 am
Posts: 6
Thanks, I will definitely go with the dual devourers then xD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:09 pm 
Offline
Medium One
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:38 pm
Posts: 254
Location: Grimsby, England
I also agree, all devours, all the time.


Personally I'm not a fan of regen either. Primarily because I usually forget that I've got it.

_________________
Real men have 6+ saves!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:40 pm 
Offline
Winged Hive Tyrant
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:10 pm
Posts: 1047
Location: Ops Deck, USS Von Braun
Centurion wrote:
I also agree, all devours, all the time.


Personally I'm not a fan of regen either. Primarily because I usually forget that I've got it.


It's also easy for most armies to focus fire and take down one MC in a turn, in which case Regen doesn't help at all if you're just dead.

_________________
See my bugs at: https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/nairland/web
http://picasaweb.google.com/bombznin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:40 pm 
Offline
Big One
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:51 am
Posts: 592
Location: San Francisco, CA
There are two good and cost effective improvements on the dual dev flyrant.

1) electroshock grubs. Because a haywire template that can put 2 or more hullpoints on an adamantium lance formation for 10 points is totally worth it. If you take a couple of flyrants they can buzz up field and take a knight out before it starts D-slapping your MCs around.

2) the new fighter ace rule from the leviathan books. For 15 points you get a random one of an extra wound, plus 6" synapse, or (best of all) the ability to fly off the board edge after shooting. All good on a warlord... but being able to fly on, shoot, then buzz off the board again is pretty gross in a dogfight.

Regen isn't really worth it, flying MCs are so resilient now with Jink anyway. Generally your flyrant will get taken out in one or two turns of shooting, so if you're lucky and you do get to roll it once, a 50% chance of getting a wound back for 30 points isn't worth it.

For melee carnifexes, go cheap or go stonecrusher.

Cheap should be scytals, scytals and adrenal glands. You'll be hitting things at S10 on the charge, so you'll even wound a wraithknight on 2+... no real need for toxin sacks. Fleet and furious charge mean you'll make your charge and run faster, and get +1 to your base S9 for that first round of combat. Save points towards your 2nd carnifex and one might get to hit something!

I tend to go with dual devourer fex with adrenal glands. 12 S6 shots twin linked are always worth it and so versatile in game, even if they cost you one attack less than the cheapo combat fex. Then, even if you camp in cover with shrouded you can deal damage on anything trying to alpha strike you without having to make the charge.

Stone crushers are really the best melee only option, because they have S10 base and d3 AP2 hammer of wrath attacks hitting at I 10. Flails are best, as they can clear squads and bust vehicles pretty effectively. Two stonecrushers charging an imperial knight have a good chance to kill it before it swings back... not bad!

_________________
Sculpting bugs since 2009: http://bugsculpting.tumblr.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:09 pm 
Offline
Biomass

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:45 am
Posts: 6
Alright, I appreciate the feedback. I will drop regen off the flyrant and I might redo the carnifex, just want to test run him first. As for a brood of fixes, would it be better in a lower point game to break them into separate groups or keep them in the same brood? And the leviathan book you mentioned, is it a supplemental book for sale and if so what would be the price of it?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:58 pm 
Offline
Big One
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:51 am
Posts: 592
Location: San Francisco, CA
The fighter ace rules are in one of the recent campaign books... I forget which one, as I've been churning through the fluff books rather than poring over the rules.

Fexes will be best in single units, providing you figure out how to keep them alive. If you can keep them in a malanthrope's shrouded bubble then hug some area terrain, even a 4 w MC will survive shooting pretty well on it's own. I run a couple of malanthropes (rules in the fw anphelion book) and a couple of solo devourer fexes, so even if a few units in pods alpha strike and try to kill em I have plenty of units to shoot, charge and clean up.

_________________
Sculpting bugs since 2009: http://bugsculpting.tumblr.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:54 pm 
Offline
Great Devourer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:39 am
Posts: 5676
Location: Canberra, Australia
Hi Hollow-salem, welcome to Warpshadow. :D
Everyone else is giving fine advice on which biomorphs and weapons to use, so I'll just say a few things in the margins.
1. Consider using a tiny dab of super glue rather than plastic cement when assembling them. It is strong enough to hold those ball and socket joints for years of gaming, but is much easier to snap off if a new edition or new codex makes you want to change what weapons your beastie is armed with.
2. When you get comfortable, try various combinations out for yourself. It's fun and you might find a load out that works well for your playstyle and against your gaming buddies that doesn't work as well anywhere else. :wink:

_________________
"I know you may find the Tyranids physically repellent to look at but believe you me, you don't want to let them out of your sight." Hojan Storall Technomagos of the Adeptus Mechanicus

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/Yaleling/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:12 am 
Offline
Biomass

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:45 am
Posts: 6
So i played my first game against space marines saturday and i must say i was quite disappointed with the carnifex build i had. I couldnt find a way to hurt the predator tank from the front and it was extremely hard to get to its side or rear armor by the combination of his marine line along with my poor deployment. As such i decided to change alot about him. Regen was a let down and i couldnt get close enough without taking a LOAD of fire to assault it so i dropped my toxin sacs, spine banks, regen, and devourers to replace them with a set of crushing claws. I have decided to make it a cheap fex for strict melee combat mainly for the aggro aspect of the carnifex (he shot at it more than anything else there). Along with this he annihilated the 14 hormagaunts trying to get into close combat and the large amount of shots from the devilgaunts struck maybe a handful wounds a round, most of which were generally always saved by his ridiculous armor. Needless to say i have learned why everyone has been saying that nids in 6th are meh.

I still have hope though. I nearly cut the fex cost in half and forwarded it to an additional devilgaunt and toxin sacs for the whole brood of hormagaunts. I am hoping the fex can keep the attention off of the gaunts for the start, allowing me to take a squad or two of marines this time before i attack the predator. My question now is if it is even possible for the gaunts to take on a predator head on or if the fex is the only way to handle it. My hq is a T. prime with relatively no upgrades so opinions please?

Note: Not too sure if i need to take this to the list building thread or leave it here so im sorry if its a little off topic for this thread.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:02 pm 
Offline
Hatchling
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:34 pm
Posts: 45
A very lucky hormagaunt brood with adrenal glands can glance a predator to death on the turn they charge, since melee is worked out against rear armour.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:31 pm 
Offline
Big One
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:51 am
Posts: 592
Location: San Francisco, CA
Haha.... nids in 7th edition are not meh. If you look at recent large tourneys they're one of the top armies right now!

However, that doesn't mean that everything in the codex works at all, or works the way it should. One does not merely genestealer one's way into Mordor. To get to those top tournament tables you need to understand how the game works this month, what you need to win and figure out right tools from the nid codex that give you a good shot at getting there with a little luck.

Blaming losses on the codex is a mugs game, especially if you're a relatively new player. Step 1 is admitting that you're nowhere near getting the maximum out of your army... and doing something about it. I recommend... playing some 40k and aiming to lose, improving with each game.

After each loss, while it's fresh in your head, write down five things that went really wrong, then try and figure out if a better unit in the codex would be better in that situation and against that opponent. Every so often you need to go through this again... it's a continuous process of being a good general. Read rules, play games, drop failing strategies and be creative coming up with new ones. The best generals improve through playing games and paying attention to them more than they do from reading rules and chatting online.

You can just crib winning units and lists from online forums and articles, but to get really good you need to know the process of putting your own army together and covering all the bases. Plus, that's the fun of the competitive side... strategic and tactical improvisation!

_________________
Sculpting bugs since 2009: http://bugsculpting.tumblr.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:36 pm 
Offline
Norn Queen wut can has cookie
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:11 am
Posts: 2262
Location: the Netherlands
I would keep the devourers on the carnifex - it doesn't lose much effectiveness in melee combat and is a lot more versatile while getting there.

I would also recommend mixing up weapons in your termagant unit. Have some with fleshborers in the front, taking any hits, and keep your devourer-armed ones in the back so they die last.

_________________
Girl Gamers

Hive Fleet Charybdis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:42 pm 
Offline
Big One
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:51 am
Posts: 592
Location: San Francisco, CA
Yeah, devourer fexes are the bomb. Instead of shooting the pred you could have thinned out the marine squads.

To take out a pred from across the table, you need a flyrant. With or without electroshock grubs, you can easily get side or back armour on it. Don't waste shots on the front.

Alternatively, take a hierodule - 12 S10 shots will wreck most non-jinking vehicles in short order, but you pay for it and have to have a plan to keep your godzilla alive.

_________________
Sculpting bugs since 2009: http://bugsculpting.tumblr.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New player flyrant/carnifex questions
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:07 am 
Offline
Great Devourer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:39 am
Posts: 5676
Location: Canberra, Australia
Hollow-salem wrote:
...Not too sure if i need to take this to the list building thread or leave it here so im sorry if its a little off topic for this thread.
We can move it for you if you really want, but the current traffic level is low enough for it not matter too much. And we're still mostly talking about specific creatures still anyway. ;)

It's great you have at least games experience to build on now. :)

Nothing wrong with taking a close combat 'fex if you really want to. A distraction is good while ever it is scary and cheap and/or durable enough, and distracts from something important enough to be worth while.
I'm with Vonny and BugSculptor in suggested carnifex load-out. Crushing claws (may) have a place on tervigons or tyrant guard: if you are going spend those points for a set on a carnifex then devourers at almost always a better choice. With a base S9 a 'fex will tear through rear armour 10 vehicles (so pretty much all of them!) with no need for help. Against rear armour 14, you can try your luck without crushing claws, but they are handy in that case.

Anything S4 or better can assault (non-walker) rear armour 10 vehicles. With S4 you'll need a lot of attacks to kill them reliably. If you get desperate don't forget zoanthropes and biovores are S4... but don't let it get to that if you can help it! :D

"Regen was a let down....." It pretty much always is. :P So don't feel like the dice let you down. I'm okay paying small points for an ability that only comes in handy occassionally (like dozer blades on tanks) but 30 points is steep even on a W6 Sv2+ tyrannofex, let alone the W4, Sv3+ carnifex.

I can't comment on the Tyranid Prime as I'm still coming to terms with her 56% points increase from the last codex. I'll leave that to others.

_________________
"I know you may find the Tyranids physically repellent to look at but believe you me, you don't want to let them out of your sight." Hojan Storall Technomagos of the Adeptus Mechanicus

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/Yaleling/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

Web Design for Warpshadow.com by SMIS Ltd.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group