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 Post subject: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Big One

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:01 am
Posts: 550
Location: Glens Falls NY
Been experimenting with some combinations and I may have found some good combos to help the hive. A local player was abusing a teir one IG list (conscript spam and Leviathan) and myself with a few others are trying to encourage new players and the said player was
discouraging them. So the better part of our group has been trying to find ways to counter the list and promote more casual game's.

1) swarmlord +old one eye. Originally I was using a large group of raveners for their large movement and SL Hive Commander to get them into turn one combat. Was uilsing it to counter a large group of conscript spam. Lot of attacks combined with 2 movement phases should make quick work of fodder spam. Later game's I started using OOE in place as a "body gaurd" for SL. Utilizing counter-assault and. Positioning of the two Giants with HC they were able to decimate anything in range.

So summary is HC and either rushing a fast unit in early game or manipulating OOE to counter assault to shut down most if not all infantry.

2) flying circus, not really a new combo but favoring harpies with strangle thorns feels more effective than hive crone. But the real damage is coming from the spore mines during the movement phases. Able to bombard pesky units like Leviathan dreadnaught with mortal wounds has been very helpful. This can be further complimented with biovores, able to flood the field with floating bombs has limited mobility if heavy vehicle lists.

3) rippers, probably the last thing you expect as useful but I have been exploited their cheap cost to fill in and replace troop slots. And as a bonus they are able to utilize the pistol rules when in combat if you want to invest the points. Personally I go naked and cheap in order to field more powerful units.

4) zoan/smite spam, again not a new concept but a valid one. I been using squads of 5 to tie up units and still attack nearby units.

Just wanted to share my findings and hope they help balance some of our hive siblings game's.

"CONSUME, LEARN, EVOLVE"

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:16 am 
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Monstrosity
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Slam down three Malanthropes in a Snotpod around him. Or three Haruspexes. 30 Devgaunts, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:48 pm 
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Big One

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:01 am
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Location: Glens Falls NY
Although your suggestions arnt wrong I was trying to stick with units under 500pts although you can fit the majority in a 1k. However your 3x harusprex is a tad expensive just 2 breaks 500. Malanthropes are not in the current "index"/codex but to my knowledge they are not cheap to play.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:04 am 
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Monstrosity
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Devgaunts, then.

Either way, the goal is to get into assault and protect your troops from outside fire. However you're comfortable doing that is what you should go with.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Big One

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:01 am
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Location: Glens Falls NY
I haven't been impressed with devgaunts myself. Still valid of course but I have been favoring more zilla based list's lately. Almost feels like every armie can out swarm ours now a days and inturn the survivability is needed and killing power is simply lost on little ones unless over buffed. And I just can't justify toxin sac and devour on the same units if it means giving up objectives.

Of course this could all be local meta. But I have been facing the conscript spam, as mentioned, as well as a chaos Marine player that has a combination khorne and nurgel that focus on spamming units and several aura buffs that stack. His favorite thing seems to be resurrecting a fat squad of cultists.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:12 pm 
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Little One
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i personal just love the changes made to gene stealers with a 5+ invuln, and a brood lord nearby to buff them, a full squad of stealers can mulch most things, but i admittedly have little experience with this edition. add in a trogon delivery system and swarm lord to boost movement and it is one of my favorite tactics. if the enemy concentrates on the stealers the trigon will wreck them and vice versa. also i see a lot of possibilities in gargoyles to tie up tougher enemies


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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Big One

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:01 am
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Location: Glens Falls NY
The issue I have with genestealers is similar to the gants/gaunts. Other armies are spamming so much infantry that I have to bring so many in a single unit just to ensure a lethal body mass that I don't have enough units to deal with the fodder. I'll still take a unit or two and if able a BL but still have to spend 2/3 of the 5 turns to clean up the combats I lose my objectives

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:09 pm 
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Little One
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you mentioned harps and hive tyrants with strangle thorn cannons those would deal with cheap fodder from a distance and as bonus you can't really be locked down easily plus the harps sonic screech is pretty useful combined with other units to take advantage of it


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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:54 am 
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Little One
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Forest wrote:
The issue I have with genestealers is similar to the gants/gaunts. Other armies are spamming so much infantry that I have to bring so many in a single unit just to ensure a lethal body mass that I don't have enough units to deal with the fodder. I'll still take a unit or two and if able a BL but still have to spend 2/3 of the 5 turns to clean up the combats I lose my objectives


You want to be taking them in big broods anyway. 10 or more gives you the extra attack so you need some extra bodies so you can take a few casualties and still have the bonus, 15-20 is where you need to be at and according to AceFace's new Tyranid Tactica two units prefereably. Not sure how that fits with your 500pts but if you throw in a Broodlord too all your Stealers are hitting on 2's and if you use their Scything Talons are re-rolling ones, the chaff is bound to fall against that.

Additionally you can have the Broodlord casting Catalyst to keep the Stealers alive, or take the Horror so your opponent is -1 both to his Leadership and hit roll. They WS is probably poor anyway so they're unlikely to get many hits in and when they take that Morale it's going to hurt. Also the Rending Claws mean you can also have a crack at the Leviathan and put a wound or two on that. Stealers are our most versatile unit, the only big issue is getting them into the combat...

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Big One

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:01 am
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Location: Glens Falls NY
It's not the lack of killing power, it's the lack of killing quantity. Going to experiment more with some carnifex spam but to explain why. The tail ability can offer just as much killing power as a small unit of genestealer's, minus rending of course. But able to take 2-3 cheap fex for similar cost of 1full squad of genestealer's. The leathality is 6 carnifex are essentially 6 separate units and that lays my issue. I can charge and kill any unit with genestealers but only one or two for the whole match were the 6x fex can wound and kill up to 6

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:09 am 
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Little One
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I hope it works out, I'm less convinced of the Carnifex though. I've tried the Thresher Scythe and it's far less effective than I hoped. With the Stealers you're faster, but more vulnerable but one brood doing 80 hits that are hitting on 3s with a re-roll of 1s or 2s with a Broodlord, versus 3 Carnifex's doing 4D3 [6 attacks?] hitting on 4s works out at 9 between 3.

Admittedly you are tying up more units, when you get to them but you are going to take multiple turns to kill them, whereas the Stealers will go through them quicker. You'll also need Synapse for the Carnifex if you want to get them to do what you want and if the plan is to spread them out you're going to have to pay for a number of extra Synapse units to keep them in check. Obviously I suggested a Broodlord for the Genestealers but they can work without him, but will work better with one.

Good luck with your test though.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Big One

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:01 am
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Location: Glens Falls NY
As said it's not the lack of killing power it's the speed they kill. The fodder I'm facing isn't just 1-2 squads it's closer to 5 avg all 30+ units some over 60. And they have mechs on the back line chipping away at my bulk till I can get into combat

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:23 am 
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Little One
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Fair enough, for the conscripts wouldn't Devgaunts be an option [mixed with Fleshborers]? Backed up by a Tervigon for the buffs and replace some of the Fleshborer meatshield, or coming out of a Tyrannocyte/Trygon. Or let them come to you and if he's not known to push them forwards ignore them and focus your list on killing the Leviathan - Hive Guard. Against conscripts Hormagaunts would be a viable option, fight horde with horde.

There are a lot of variables about the small points used, the types of games you are playing [Maelstrom/Eternal War], how he plays the list. The real enjoyment factor here is finding that list that will beat it, even if the actual games don't seem pleasant. Alternatively you tell him he's becoming 'that guy' :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Big One

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:01 am
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Location: Glens Falls NY
I've been able to deal with it so far but haven't had any confirmed way to destroy the units. Also keeping other armies in mind (blood angels and ork primary) I'll try out a fat squad or two of hormagaunts. But going to feel out if toxic sacs would be needed or if extra bodies would be better longel term. In the type always looking for the perfect list for any situation and still versatile enough to focus objectives without giving free points.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Overpowered combos
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Maybe a handful of Mawlocks...

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