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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:07 pm 
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Monstrosity
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You mention that Hormagaunts do not appear in any tournament lists or perhaps 'winning' tournament lists.

Please note that I used 2 broods of 20 Hormagaunts w/ Toxin Sacks in my winning tournament list from (23 Jan 10). Those little guys made my day, I owe them representation!

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:55 pm 
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Biomass

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Nidhogar wrote:
You mention that Hormagaunts do not appear in any tournament lists or perhaps 'winning' tournament lists.

Please note that I used 2 broods of 20 Hormagaunts w/ Toxin Sacks in my winning tournament list from (23 Jan 10). Those little guys made my day, I owe them representation!

Thanks!


Note when that was posted: "Mon Jan 26, 2009"

Did you use hormagaunts in the old codex? No? I didn't think so.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Biotitan
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the whole thread is based on the old codex ;) I dont have the time to go over everything from the new dex.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:19 am 
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Medium One
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I used Horms then too.. One of my finest moments was when my broodlord's retinue got vaped by a Demolisher, and he was left standing in the crater. A 30 strong unit of Horms who had been caught one stinking inch outside Synapse fled to him, and he joined them, proceeding to purge the whole board, albeit at his slow as hell, non-fleet pace... 8-) :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:24 pm 
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Biomass

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Terrorfex, you did a excelent job before.
I, personaly learned so many thing from your database.If possibile i would like to read your opinion about new kodex.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:21 pm 
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Biotitan
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hey,

thanks but I played the codex some years before I posted this thread. The new codex is still pretty young and it will take long before I can do a thread like this again. But unfortunally from the games and the reviews I read so far it wont be a happy writing. I test armies every day atm and I have to say that there are only a handfull units which I would consider pretty good.

this would be the tyranid prime, hive guards, genestealer,broodlords, termagaunts, tervigons, gargoyle and with a little dostance to the other units Zoantrophes and Trygons.

Many other units are cool and good to field if you wanna play with friends but not viable on tournements and some jokes are in the codex too. ( of course last codex the biovores and liktors where the jokes...now the tyrannofexes and pyrovore are the jokes and the lictor is still not playable cause it lost his dep strike attack ability)

I am still testing lists but a half solid list is forming ....and sad but true I made the best experience if I leave the big guys ( Trygon, mawloc) at home. genestealer are freakn esome right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Conventional Wisdom for Lists in 5th Ed.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:17 pm 
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Biomass

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Temporary i will not play with my tyranids.
I had so many lost game, with this new kodex.


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 Post subject: Re: Conventional Wisdom for Lists in 5th Ed.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:31 pm 
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Deathgaunt
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There are a few things that I've noticed from my games using the new codex, allow me to share them with you and feel free to agree/disagree.

Firstly, adrenal glands and toxin sacs are an extremely useful option for many of the choices in the new codex (adrenal gland offers +1 S and I when charging, toxin sacs cause everything to wound on a 4+). In general, adrenal glands will enhance any codex option that can take them, but I find they are most useful when used to increase a unit's "to wound" roll to around a 4+ or even a 3+ in some situations, or to increase initiative enough to strike first.

Likewise, toxin sacs are a great way to take down high-toughness elite enemy units (commanders, nightbringers, wraithlords, avatar, etc) since they wound EVERYTHING on a 4+. When combined with units that can shell out large numbers of shooting attacks each turn, you'll find that even hard elite units will begin to fail saves and fall. The only issue is that against many standard units granting +1S and auto-wounds on 4+ are essentially the same, but by spending those extra points on the units that can benefit form these upgrades the most (termagants, hormagaunts, gargoyles, stealers), the power of a lot of lists increases a lot against high-toughness lists.

Also, the increased power of many of oru psychic attacks and psychic special rules has given us a lot more variability when used properly. Paroxysm and Catalyst are wonderful, and the deathleaper's special rule can be really fierce against many armies. S10 Ap1 lances are nothing to sneeze at either, but it is crucial to either protect your psychic units (zoans especially) or use enough of them to force your opponent to split fire. Mycetic spores and Mawlocs are very useful, as the confusion and number of targets they can present to the opponent can be an extremely viable tactic. A lot of people have been hating on the Mawloc, but the fact is that this thing can arrive (dolling out S6 AP2 hits to all under the template where it arrives), open up a hole for further reserves to arrive from, and then disappear and do the same thing the next turn. That is a tactic that can't be overlooked, while they aren't rock hard in combat in and of themselves, they certainly aren't easy to take down either with 6W, T6, and a 3+ save.

Horde units (hormies and termies) are still as good as they ever were, even so much as they were in 3rd edition if you ask me. Hormagaunts with glands and sacs charge with S4 I6 A3 (with re-rolls on to-hit rolls of 1) and wound on a 4+ regardless of the target. What this means is that we wound on a 3+ against T4 (marines), a 2+ for anything less, and a 4+ for everything else (T5, T6, T7...). Termagants with fleshborers wound anything with T4 or higher on a 4+ (thats 50% of the time). When you consider the size of most units of hormies and termies (usually 16-30), that's a huge amount of wounds to roll for! While the standard gaunt isn't superb in its own right, when used correctly and when built with a specific purpose in mind, they can collectively make or break a game in many cases.

Just as an example, my units of 16 hormagaunts are rolling 48 attacks on the charge (if I can get them all in combat) that automatically wound on a 4+. On top of that, they attack first! On average when rolling 48 attacks, 24 should hit on a 4+ against marines, 12 of which should wound; with marines having a 3+ save, in an average round of combat I'll be killing 4 marines before they even get a chance to strike back- which is enough to force morale checks on most enemies (though marines are fearless).

That's my $.02 for the day; let me know if you agree? I think this is a good way to build up another guide for Nids- each of us has our own area of knowledge within our lists, if we can combine that into one document (cough HERE! cough) we can quickly compile a great collection of advice :)

Neutrophile

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 Post subject: Re: Conventional Wisdom for Lists in 5th Ed.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:41 pm 
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Biomass

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:54 pm
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I think some point you are wrong.

When you charge marines(or any other unit, modells) they are most of the time in cover.
We do not have flesh hook(frag grenade) so they will hit you first, even you have i6.

Mawlock, unfortunately, in my country, they not allowed me to use mawlock as long as faq/errata not clear it up , how to use correctly.(i can not put onto the modell/unit mawlock)

You metioned t6 sv3, when you are facing tournament armys , you will see within one turn they can shoot down 2 of this mawlock very easily.


I used warriros and power fist/power claw instantly killed every round in close combat 2-3 warriors.

Low toughnes(instant death), no flesh hook, overcosted modells.


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 Post subject: Re: Conventional Wisdom for Lists in 5th Ed.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:18 pm 
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Little One

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:41 pm
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Location: NY, USA
Neutrophile wrote:

Just as an example, my units of 16 hormagaunts are rolling 48 attacks on the charge (if I can get them all in combat) that automatically wound on a 4+. On top of that, they attack first! On average when rolling 48 attacks, 24 should hit on a 4+ against marines, 12 of which should wound; with marines having a 3+ save, in an average round of combat I'll be killing 4 marines before they even get a chance to strike back- which is enough to force morale checks on most enemies (though marines are fearless).



It should actually be 24+2 for re-rolls from scytals, resulting in 13+7 wounds from TS, meaning around 6-7 dead marines before they strike. A lot better then it would seem.

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 Post subject: Re: Conventional Wisdom for Lists in 5th Ed.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:44 am 
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Deathgaunt
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The rules don't take into account "what most people will bring to a tournament army" or "how most people will use their units in cover"; as far as the rules go, in theory I6 is fantastic, and in theory the mawloc is a serious monster- while EVERY unit in every army has its bane, T6 W6 3+SV is seriously good compared to most nids (and most other close combat options in other armies as well). It might die, but mine have been taking their points back in every game I've played before being shot down on turn 3 or so.

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 Post subject: Re: Conventional Wisdom for Lists in 5th Ed.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:36 am 
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Little One
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Apologies for the thread necro (sorta..) Can we either unsticky this or change the title to say that it's for the old codex? Just wasted some time until I got to the "HQ: Broodlord" entry and went "Heeeey now" ;)

Viperion


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 Post subject: Re: Conventional Wisdom for Lists in 5th Ed.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:40 am 
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at least the latter part is about 5th edition. I'll try and find some time soon to sort out which part is still about 4th and split it up. (or another mod, if they find the time before me)

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 Post subject: Re: Conventional Wisdom for Lists in 5th Ed.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:51 pm 
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Broodling

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vonny wrote:
at least the latter part is about 5th edition. I'll try and find some time soon to sort out which part is still about 4th and split it up. (or another mod, if they find the time before me)


Can you tell me at what point it starts to be 5th? I have been away from the game long enough to have missed all of 4th so the begining of the thread confused me slightly.


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 Post subject: Re: Conventional Wisdom for Lists in 5th Ed.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:43 am 
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Great Devourer
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Az- wrote:
Can you tell me at what point it starts to be 5th? I have been away from the game long enough to have missed all of 4th so the begining of the thread confused me slightly.


Hi Az- welcome to Warpshadow. :D

The new (current) codex was released mid January 2010. Any posts and threads after that date are almost certainly referring to the new (current) codex. Just check the upper right of a post to see the time and date stamp. :wink:

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