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 Post subject: Just crazy enough it might work
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:56 pm 
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Harpy
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Posts: 2257
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Seeking the cool, rational clarity of the hive mind...

I'm looking for odd ways to make CC tyrants workable (lost cause, yes I know)...
* Walking (too slow)
* Flying (too vulnerable in glide, has to transition before assaulting)
* Skytyrant Swarm formation (majority T3 is a bummer)

Flying + Deepstrike solves the problem with having to move across the board, but as far as I read the rules, it delays the tyrant's viability in CC even more than a normal CC unit trying to deepstrike, because the Flyrant *must* arrive in a Swooping movement mode, can't transition until the following turn, and then can't assault until the next turn after that. Since it can't arrive from deepstrike any sooner than turn 2, that means assault no sooner than turn 4 (and after being in the open at "Glide" for a full turn).

BUT

What if the Flyrant was embarked in a Tyrannocyte?

The Tyrannocyte itself must arrive by deepstrike, but the unit carried inside deploys by "disembarking", and is restricted from moving or charging. Nowhere does it say that the carried unit has executed a "deepstrike".

Therefore, you should (I'm opining) be able to disembark the Tyrant (using the Tyrannocyte as cover), declare it to be in "Glide" mode (since you can decide either mode when it arrives from Reserve per the rules for FMCs), run if necessary, and then assault in the following turn.

...or assault is just a lost cause under the current codex. That's possible too.

Thoughts?

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"And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."
- Edgar Allen Poe, The Masque of the Red Death


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 Post subject: Re: Just crazy enough it might work
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:33 pm 
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Medium One

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:55 am
Posts: 250
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas
Wouldn't it be better at that point to just use a Walking Tyrant? Since you could spend the points on wings for other things?

I'd personally go for the formation T3 and all. I think that the ablative wounds would in general be better if only because T6 isn't always a powerhouse anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Just crazy enough it might work
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:39 pm 
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Biotitan
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:32 am
Posts: 2048
Location: Los Angeles
I have had success using a list with four Tyrannocytes, all undedicated. I field two walkrants (one of them a Swarmlord), two units of Tyrant Guard (3 each but may drop that down to 2 each), a unit of Zoans, a full brood of Pyrovores, a full Cluster of Mucolid Spores and Warriors. There are other things in there I can't remember at the moment but I mix and match. The key thing is I have two walkrants and two Tyrant Guard broods.

Depending on my opponent, I'll put at least one Tyrant in a Tyrannocyte--usually the Swarmlord--and one Tyrant Guard in another. The other Tyrant and Tyrant Guard may or may not start on the board depending on what the opponent has. For example, if they have heavy vehicles I'll dedicate one Tyrannocyte to the Zoans and pick another unit to fill the other while the other Tyrant and Guard are on the board somewhere safe. Thanks to the Swarmlord's special rule, all reserves arrive on a 2+. I stand a very good chance of having both the Swarmlord and Tyrant Guard arriving together on Turn 2. I put them in a favorable position of both pressure and proximity to really challenge the opponent to deal with the unit immediately. Everything else marches up the field relatively unmolested.

It's quite enjoyable watching the opponent's expression when you suddenly plop a Tyrant + Tyrant Guard that far forward that quickly. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Just crazy enough it might work
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:56 pm 
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Harpy
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:17 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: San Diego, California, USA
That is an interesting idea...I did think about the Swarmlord for the +1 reserves, despite the fact that he's lost some of his luster since the last Codex (losing the ability to force invul save rerolls was really terrible!). My concern is that anything that can only walk will be extremely vulnerable to the high-mobility enemies like Eldar jetbikes that can take advantage of the 1-turn grace period between deepstrike and assault to dance back and blast away.

Anyhow, with deep trepidation I post my list...I think it may need some work, but I only just realized that the three biovores that were going to be part of my Living Artillery Node won't get here in the mail in time, so I'm having to exert other options...

CAD:
HQ - Flyrant w/ 2x BL devourers
EL - 3x Zoanthrope w/ Neurothrope upgrade
EL - 1x Venomthrope
TR - 2x7 Rippers w/ SF, TS, Deepstrike
TR - 7x Rippers w/ SF, TS
TR - 1x Mucolid
TR - 1x Mucolid
HS - Exocrine
HS - Mawloc
(Extra) 2x Tyrannocyte

Formation: Skytyrant Swarm
- Flyrant w/ Reaper of obliterax, scytals, AG
- 15x gargoyles
- 15x gargoyles

In my mind's eye, I deploy the Skytyrant Swarm forward in the DZ with a tail leading back to the venomthrope (out of enemy LOS), ready to Jink when shot and move as far forward as possible. Similarly, the Mawloc starts out of sight to burrow on Turn 2, and the non-DS brood of rippers starts on any objectives I may want to guard from enemy deepstrikers.

The shooty flyrant, exocrine (in tyrannocyte), zoanthropes (in tyrannocyte), both mucolids, and the other two broods of rippers start in reserve.

Opening now to interest and criticism...


EDIT: side note; here are the 5 missions...in each case, two maelstrom objectives are rolled each turn by each player, from a d6 roll that includes holding the maelstrom markers, killing an enemy unit, having scoring units in the enemy DZ, having three friendly units and no enemies in own DZ, etc (slightly different per mission). Maelstrom objectives are worth 1 VP each per turn. For both regular and maelstrom objectives, VP are totalled up at the end of the game and the winner gets 4 mission points if they win (highest VP total) each; tieing or losing is worth 0 mission points. Therefore, the mission point totals are going to be very "all or nothing". There are also 3 bonus mission points (linebreaker, slay the warlord, etc) available in each mission, for a total of 11 mission points possible in each game.

1: Dawn of War (normal) / Emperor's Will (1 obj in each DZ) + 1 maelstrom objective placed >18" from each long board edge

2: Hammer and Anvil (long board) / The Relic + 1 maelstrom objective placed in each DZ

3: Vanguard Strike (diagonal) / Purge the Alien (KP) + 3 maelstrom objectives (table center + 1 in each DZ)

4: Hammer and Anvil (long board) / modified The Scouring; obj 1 in own DZ, 2 >30" from friendly edge, 3 in enemy DZ; these are used as the Scouring objectives (with pt value as given) and maelstrom objectives

5: Vanguard Strike (diagonal) / modified Big Guns never tire; each player puts 1 obj in their own DZ and one in the enemy DZ; these are used as both Big Guns objectives and maelstrom objectives.

_________________
"And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all."
- Edgar Allen Poe, The Masque of the Red Death


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 Post subject: Re: Just crazy enough it might work
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:48 pm 
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Great Devourer
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:39 am
Posts: 5676
Location: Canberra, Australia
That plan seems entirely legit from a rules point of view.

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