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 Post subject: Skyshield Landing Pad - Again!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:02 am 
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Biotitan
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Had a Marine Player place three units of Devastators UNDER his Skyshield Landing Pad.

We both agreed that this does NOT give them the "furled" option for invulnerable saves. But he did claim it DOES give them a Cover Save.
Thought this was fair, since they are under a structure.

But here's where it gets bad....

A Flyrant cannot "see" the Devs so they cannot be shot. They cannot be Assaulted by anything that cannot physically fit under the Skyshield's Pad. Which makes them "Assault-Proof" to anything but Genestealers, Rippers (which neither nobody uses) and Gaunts!

Other than punching this [Feminine Hygiene Product] in the face, how can this sort of incident be prevented in the future?

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad - Again!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Little One
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...


Last edited by PolishSwarm on Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad - Again!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:44 pm 
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Big One

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hivegaurds are still viable. not needing LOS to shoot a target simply needs to be near a psyker ( fly-rant, zoanthrope, ect.).

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad - Again!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:21 pm 
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Great Devourer
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Even thinking about it for a month and a half, I can't see a way around it. :?

I'd feel completely different if the skyshield was just a placed piece of terrain, and he saw an opportunity and exploited during the game. That's clever use of terrain. But he didn't, it was purchased for this quirk in rules to get around a deliberate weakness of centurions. That's a jerk of a thing to do. And since this is largely a Tyranid problem, that suggests he tailored his list to fight your Tyranids specifically. That's double jerk worthy.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad - Again!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:03 am 
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Little One
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Having made my own Skyshield and used it’s ‘unique’ rules and idiosyncrasies to baffle my opponent I can’t help but be biased in siding with your opponent, jerk move it may be. But as PolishSwarm suggest shooting is still an option but if you can’t get under then assault is out. Equally, from the ground if you can’t see your opponent on the pad you can’t be assaulted and you can’t assault them.

The fact is there are also significant disadvantages to the Landing Pad, I usually need a 6” difficult terrain move to get a Tervigon off the top of it, anything else and it’d be stuck. Your opponent will get the 4+ cover save underneath, if he’s obscured by the stanchions but wouldn’t get the invul. And I’m not sure you could prevent him putting an objective under there. I’ve done it, which again may be considered a jerk move but why wouldn’t the hive build their landing pad over the most strategic spot? Fact is if you can get a unit on top of the platform above the objective they can still claim it, it’s not impossible and I‘ve let Knights climb on top of it to assault me, even when it was not physically possible just because it looked cool and was cinematic.

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The Skyshield is broken in some respects, I’m still meeting people who bemoan the fact they can’t blow it up because it has no Hull Points and annoyed that it’s also scoring… but it’s not the most broken thing in the game. The best defence is awareness of it and exploiting it’s weaknesses.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad - Again!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:52 pm 
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Great Devourer
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Dwez wrote:
And I’m not sure you could prevent him putting an objective under there. I’ve done it, which again may be considered a jerk move but why wouldn’t the hive build their landing pad over the most strategic spot? Fact is if you can get a unit on top of the platform above the objective they can still claim it, it’s not impossible and I‘ve let Knights climb on top of it to assault me, even when it was not physically possible just because it looked cool and was cinematic.

That's a good point Dwez, it is a pretty thematic place for an objective no matter the faction. And you get bonus points for the effort and beautifulness of your skyshield. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad - Again!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:35 am 
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Broodling
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Dwez wrote:
...that it’s also scoring…


I'm intrigued by this. Are you saying the landing pad is scoring? Can someone please explain?


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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad - Again!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:07 am 
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Little One
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faidlar wrote:
Dwez wrote:
...that it’s also scoring…


I'm intrigued by this. Are you saying the landing pad is scoring? Can someone please explain?


'Any unit can be a scoring unit unless:

It is a building or Fortification that is unclaimed (claimed buildings count as a scoring unit from the claiming player's army).'

So, if you have any fortification and it's 'claimed', it's scoring. When you consider the size of a Skyshield you put one Termagant on it on one side and it's within 3" of an objective the other thats a cheeky way to hold it so long as that model claims the landing pad. And as the Skyshield can't be destroyed only ob-sec can snatch the objective away, but I usually put my Termagant blob and Tervigon on top with a Venomthrope lurking nearby. It's a mighty combo of enhance cover and invul saves with a hughe wound pool, which is why it's tricksy to put it underneath then bubble wrap the base. Or you could even take a couple of obstacles like tanglewire or barricades to slow the advance towards it.

When I finally made the Skyshield I actually found more use for the Bastion as Quad Guns became legal but as D-weapons became more prevalent and their wielders are usually highly mobile [Knights, Wraith Knights] the Skyshield becomes an indestructable obstacle that can keep your models alive and prove a really annoying structure for them to get around, despite their speed. I miss the Quad Gun, or Comms Relay but it's rapidly becoming my preferred Fortification, which given I don't take upgrades ends up cheaper than the Bastion/Quad Gun too.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad - Again!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Norn Queen wut can has cookie
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isn't a model not fitting underneath the skyshield a case of 'wobbly model syndrome', though?

In so much as that as long as it's perfectly clear to both players where a model stands, it's fine to place a model to the side if it is in danger of falling over on its official spot or if it doesn't fit a particular place because of cool looking banners or wings, or similar stuff.

I haven't looked up the actual rule, but that just came to me off the top of my head.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad - Again!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:06 am 
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Little One
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That's a sword that cuts both ways, there are deffinitely big things I don't want to fit underneath because I don't want someoen else putting them there. My Skyshield is already at risk from rules lawyers. It's never actually happened, thankfully but I wouldn't put it past someone to eventually complain. It's foot print is actually bigger than the Imperial Skyshield and it has 6 towers instead of 4, which means more cover to hide behind and those towers are taller in places. However, the surface area of this skyshield is much less, which I designed to be less to ensure there was no claims of modelling for advantage. Of course I didn't really take into account the towers would increase it's foot print and they obviously changed the rules now so it has to be deployed in your deployment zone, not your table half so technically it's a little too big. But the rules do state your opponent should just let you increase you DZ if your models won't fit, so I place the Skyshield but models do not deploy past the 12" mar on top of it.

But going back to models underneath you could probably claim something is just an inch further back, we play that sort of thing regularly in my group but for the Skyshield I try and suffer the consequences of some of my ill-thought out design decisions as I can also reap the benefits of the positive aspects of other decisions. If everything on my Skysheild design worked for my advantage it'd look dodgy, particularly as there are already crazy tricks and advantages to it already thanks to the rules.

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