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 Post subject: Warpflame and my poor brain
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Biotitan
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Location: Stratford ON
I have so many questions to this ability, and GW STILL hasn't done a bloody FAQ on it. I need to get the kinks nailed out of this for MM as there can be a lot of issues popping up on this ability.

Here is the ruling:

At the end of each phase any unit that suffered one or more unsaved wounds during the phase from an attack with this rule must take a toughness test. If the test is failed, the unit immediately suffers D3 wounds with no armour or cover saves allowed. If the test is passed, all models in the unit gain FNP (+6) for the rest of the game. Any models in the unit that already have FNP gain +1 to it for the rest of the game. Chaos is fickle!

Fickle indeed... that last bit is going to cause some headaches. Here is how I read this ability

-Unit gets wounded by an attack/ability/spell that has Warpflame
-Wait until the phase is over before doing the T check. You DON'T do multiple T checks on same unit, only one.
-When everything is done in said phase, do T check and determine results

Now my headache with this ability comes from abilities from Painboys, Apothecaries, Heralds of Nurgle, Biomancy, and Tervigons to name a few...

To me that's a separate FNP granted by a shared ability and not a base model FNP.

If the FNP is a spell like from Biomancy or a Tervigon, its temporary and would not get boosted by Warpflame. They would have the spell FNP and the FNP given by Warpflame. Two different FNP saves.

If its a Plauge Marine or any model that HAS FNP in their default stat-line, YES Warpflame would boost that by 1.

If its a Painboy, Apothecary or Herald of Nurgle with the FNP locus... this is were it gets confusing. I think they have FNP in their stat-line, but give it out to the unit as well. So how would one handle this...

The ability gets boosted, but when the unit that has the ability dies, that FNP is gone too.

The ability does NOT get boosted. The unit gains their own FNP. So the Nobs with their Painboy would have a 6+ from warpflame and that 5+ from the Painboy too.

TLDR shortform summary: Only baseline FNP (thats in their statline) gets boosted by Warpflame. Ability's and spells that give FNP do not as they have temporary boundaries.

Also, how does a T check work with units that are T6 or higher?

Tzeentch is wracking my brain on this one, what would you guys say? Do we need to house rule this ability at all?

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 Post subject: Re: Warpflame and my poor brain
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Biotitan
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:32 am
Posts: 2048
Location: Los Angeles
The easy way to interpret this is that the passed T test grants the unit +1 to FNP, period. What that FNP roll is depends on timing when the wound is suffered.

CASE 1
Unit passes T test on your turn, goes from 0 to +1 FNP. On his turn, that unit gets embroiled in combat and winds up suffering wounds. No other FNP exists from any other source, so the unit has 6+ FNP in effect.

CASE 2
Tyranid unit passes T test on your turn, goes from 0 to +1 FNP. On his turn, he targets that unit with Catalyst, granting the unit a 5+ FNP through the Psychic Power. That unit then assaults something and suffers a wound. The unit gets 4+ FNP (5+ plus the +1 from Warpflame). The following turn, the Tyranid player fails to get Catalyst off on that unit. As a result, the ensuing combat after yields a unit with 6+ FNP (from Warpflame only).

A unit has one FNP it can use, but because the wording of Warpflame grants any existing FNP a +1 modifier, it stacks on whatever FNP it has or will get until the end of the game.

I play both Daemons and Tyranids. As a Daemon player, this seems to be exactly what the rule intends.


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 Post subject: Re: Warpflame and my poor brain
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Biotitan
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Location: Stratford ON
So many FNPs makes my brain hurt. I probaly overthinked it as usual. Your wording makes it make more sense to my over-calculating mind lol

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 Post subject: Re: Warpflame and my poor brain
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:50 am 
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Norn Queen wut can has cookie
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and to answer your last question: a 6 on the dice always fails on a characteristic test

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 Post subject: Re: Warpflame and my poor brain
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:33 am 
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Hatchling

Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 38
Hi Krewl Rain,

I think Tropic Thunder hit the nail on the head. One of the big things the tourney organizers in my neck of the woods go by when ruling on questions involving saves, is that "usually" you can only ever have one of a given type of save.
This would force you to combine the FnP saves, as no model may have two FnP saves, armour saves, cover saves or invulnerability saves.

Hope this was helpful.

Good luck with your tourney,

Ronin

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