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 Post subject: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Biotitan
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The Skyshield Landing Platform in the BRB for 75 points: It's not a Fortification with Hull Points. It just says you treat it like Difficult Terrain even if the Shields are up. So here's a few questions about it. Let's say a Platoon of Guardsmen are bundled nice and tight on the Platform. Can they be assaulted? (I sure hope they can). If they can, how many models get into Base-to-Base contact and how do you determine that? Also it has obvious Access Points with ladders and hatches on the inside of the legs. But it's Terrain so it doesn't get 'access points'. Could one just climb up the front of the legs with a Difficult Terrain test?

If so, can you please let me know rule references for this. There's THAT GUY who is being a Richard Cranium.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:31 pm 
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Well there is good news and bad news Mystery.
    The Good - While moving up to, or down from the skyshield landing pad requires difficult terrain test (pg115) there is no reason to assume that vertical movement 'costs' anything. The only terrain type where moving up or down levels cost movement is ruins. And as a fortification the skyshield is not a ruin.

    The Bad - Since the shyshield is not a ruin there are no rules for assaulting and not being able to place models in base to base even though you have the movement to make it in base contact. Ruins have good, clear rules for this on page 101.

Since your opponent seems to be doing this purely to abuse the rules I suppose there is no chance you can agree on a sensible way of dealing with it (I suggest treating it like a ruin for movement and assault as the most sensible). So pick an equally outrageous position and dice off for who gets their way each and every time if comes up. (Page 5)
    Him - "You can't place models in base contact as there is no room lol hax rofl."

    You - "We since vertical movement doesn't cost me anything as this is not a ruin, I say all 28 hormagaunts would have made it into combat. So let's just treat like wall from page 104 and pretend they are in base contact despite the terrain being in the way."

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:27 pm 
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Like Yale said, I always treated it as ruins. So you had to get to base contact with the legs, then roll the Difficult Terrain test to get up to the "shield" level. That was it.

It provides its guys cover, but it's not an invincible bastion, after all: it's an elevated helipad with (low) walls.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:38 pm 
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Ok, the Skyshield is actually DESIGNED for Valkyries/Vendettas. What if there was one of those on the Skyshield. Would it get a 4++ Invulnerable Save? And even if it did, could it fire from up there?!

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:06 pm 
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I reckon yes to the invulnerable save as the skyshield's rules are separate from the normal requirements for cover saves. You just have to be on the platform when it is in shielded mode to get the save.
And it probably can shoot from up there too as the skyshield doesn't stop you shooting from it, and it would LoS to most things from up there as you use TLoS from the weapon muzzles, and it should have great lines of sight with the flight stand raising it 4" above the already tall platform! (Remembering the flight stand only comes off if it is wrecked or immobilised in skimmer mode.)

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:45 am 
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Could Monstrous Creatures climb up a Skyshield? Or would these be considered the same as upper levels of buildings?

What if a Skyshield were in your deployment area? Could you deploy Monstrous Creatures up there? -Or worse yet, your IG opponent putting Leman Russes up there.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Well, I guess it has to be yes to both unless you can agree on a more sensible approach.

Nothing stopping a monstrous creature from climbing it. It isn't a ruin or a building, and just takes a difficult terrain test (which MC's do rather well at) to ascend or descend. That also means walkers can climb it and other vehicles just have to take a dangerous terrain check. (Although how dozer blades help here boggles the mind a little. :shock:)

And you can't deploy vehicles in impassable terrain but the top of the skyshield is open terrain. I can only assume those legs on the platform are hydraulic and can be raised and lowered and nothing big enough to carry a russ is going to land on it. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Oh no! Not this again....

An IG Player put a Griffon UNDER a Skyshield Landing Pad.
He says that since Barrage shots Ignore Cover by rules, it should still be able to fire it's Barrage shots into enemy units.

WhaaaaaaaAAAAAAAaaaaaat?!

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:20 am 
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MysteryShadow wrote:
Oh no! Not this again....

An IG Player put a Griffon UNDER a Skyshield Landing Pad.
He says that since Barrage shots Ignore Cover by rules, it should still be able to fire it's Barrage shots into enemy units.

WhaaaaaaaAAAAAAAaaaaaat?!


But Barrage weapons always hit the highest level of a ruin that the hole covers [pg100] i.e. as the barrage comes down it hits the first thing it comes into contact with, therefore if you place a roof over your model it hits that first, explodes and takes out the Griffon. Has the IG player been drinking from the petro-chem still again?

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:12 am 
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Interesting overview of the Skyshield here:

http://www.apocprod.com/2013/02/18/40k- ... nding-pad/

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:35 am 
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Okay, I wasn't playing this time, but other players were.

A Chaos Daemon player wanted his Daemon Prince to walk under the Skyshield.

The Space Marine player claimed that if physical models could not fit under the Skyshield, they could not actually go under it.

This sounded fair and acceptable until....

The Space Marine player wished for his Command Squad to go under. The Daemon player claimed that they could not either since the banner pole would disallow such movement!


The Space Marine player claimed that the model could limbo or crouch. The Daemon player shouted "You mean a Daemon could not do that!?" and was about to punch the Space Marine player in the face at this point.


Your thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:10 pm 
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wobbly model syndrome mechanic:
"Sometimes you may find that a particular piece of terrain makes it hard to put a model exactly where you want. [...] In cases like these, we fubd ut is perfectly acceptable to leave the model in a safer position, as long as both players have agreed and know its 'actual' location." (page 11)

I've used this a few times for having models with large bases such as my trygon standing across the wall of a ruined building (as the rules state a wall isnt' impassable terrain, and as such he's legally able to stand there too), and I can see the same thing happening here. It's damaging for the models to put it under the skyshield, but there's nothing in the rules, as far as I can find, that prevents them from moving there.
Furthermore, dramatic and awesome posing shouldn't give players a disadvantage on the field of battle; "These rules are intended to insure that models don't get penalised for having impressive banners, weaponry, and so on." (page 8, right column, 2nd paragraph)

In my oppinion, these rules show the intention clearly, that both the chaos daemon prince and the command squad can move underneath.
Furthermore, I can find no rules to contradict that assumption.


Tl;dr: They (the daemon prince and the command squad) could've both moved under the skyshield landing pad.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Vonny has it. The rules basis for this is the terrain under the skyshield landing pad is open ground. See page 90 if you need confirmation that no additional rules apply to models in open ground. :wink: If the models can't physically be placed there, use the wobbly model syndrome rules from page 11.



I suspect the space marine player is mis-remembering a rule from 5th edition, were in ruins a model that can climb ruins could only be placed in upper floors of a ruin if the model could physically fit there. All of that is unhelpful as: 1) we aren't playing 5th edition; 2) neither the open ground under a skyshield or the skyshield itself is a ruin; and 3) it applied equally to monstrous creatures and infantry alike. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:49 am 
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Thanks for the replies. I'll be sure to forward this information to both parties.

The Daemon player was cool with the original ruling until the Marine player wanted to go under it. I was afraid more than dice would be thrown when they both left the Nerd Store.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyshield Landing Pad
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:19 am 
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In our shop we agreed that any model could move freely about the surface/decking of the pad because it's open terrain. We also agreed that MCs and vehicles of any kind (including bikes and skimmers) could not go under a landing pad. All other models could pass under the landing pad even if by physical design they couldn't fit standing up. We haven't had any problems with our ruling.

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